Re: no particular thread
Fight Test
i thought i was smart - i thought i was right i thought it better not to
fight - i thought there was a virtue
in always being cool - so when it came to fight i thought i'll just step
aside and the time would prove
you wrong and that you would be the fool - i don't know where the sunbeams
end and the starlight begins
it's all a mystery oh to fight is to defend
if it's not now then tell me when would be the time that you would stand up
and be a man - for to lose
i could accept but to surrender i just wept and regretted this moment - oh
that i -
it's all a mystery 'cause i'm a man not a boy and there are things you can't
avoid you have to face them
when you're not prepared to face them
Ego Tripping at the Gates of Hell
i was waiting on a moment but the moment never came all the billion other
moments
were just slipping all away i must have been tripping just ego tripping
i was wanting you to love me but your love it never came all the other love
around me
was just wasting all away
i must have been tripping just ego tripping i was waiting on a moment but
the moment never came
Are You a Hypnotist??
i had forgiven you for tricking me again but i have been tricked again -
into forgiving you - what is this?? are you some kind of hypnotist??
waving your powers around - the sun eclipse behind the cloud... i though
i recognized your face amongst all of the recognized what is this?? are you
some kind of hypnotist?? waving your powers around - the sun eclipse behind
the cloud
t
+when mices aren't at home, the cats run the place
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
i thought i was smart - i thought i was right i thought it better not to
fight - i thought there was a virtue
in always being cool - so when it came to fight i thought i'll just step
aside and the time would prove
you wrong and that you would be the fool - i don't know where the sunbeams
end and the starlight begins
it's all a mystery oh to fight is to defend
if it's not now then tell me when would be the time that you would stand up
and be a man - for to lose
i could accept but to surrender i just wept and regretted this moment - oh
that i -
it's all a mystery 'cause i'm a man not a boy and there are things you can't
avoid you have to face them
when you're not prepared to face them
Ego Tripping at the Gates of Hell
i was waiting on a moment but the moment never came all the billion other
moments
were just slipping all away i must have been tripping just ego tripping
i was wanting you to love me but your love it never came all the other love
around me
was just wasting all away
i must have been tripping just ego tripping i was waiting on a moment but
the moment never came
Are You a Hypnotist??
i had forgiven you for tricking me again but i have been tricked again -
into forgiving you - what is this?? are you some kind of hypnotist??
waving your powers around - the sun eclipse behind the cloud... i though
i recognized your face amongst all of the recognized what is this?? are you
some kind of hypnotist?? waving your powers around - the sun eclipse behind
the cloud
t
+when mices aren't at home, the cats run the place
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Fw: [-empyre-] COLLISION SINGS
----- Original Message -----
From: "melinda rackham" <melinda@unsw.edu.au>
To: <empyre@imap.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] COLLISION SINGS
>
> K+M wrote
> > >memory is one string, both embodied and disembodied memories,
> > >as unreliable as bodies and words.
> >
> > .........how do we feel about attribution of ownership in regards 2
> > mem(e)ories?........
>
>
> i also think there is an energetic line that binds them.. a sticky
virtual
> protein string, maybe its somehow enmeshed in the electrical energetic
> bursts thata make my computer screen and the web happen... also i truely
> believe i have gene memories.. memories and familiaraties that have
nothing
> to do with my conscious lived experience on or offline.. (um and i DONT
mean
> new age past-lives..i mean memory that is physically encoded) so im
> wondering about memory that is physically encoded in web personalities..?
> our memory of them their memories of themselves..
>
> ....i find watching pre-parkinson's footage of michael j fox so
> > fascinating, as u realise that those idiosyncratic body-gestures may not
b
> > so idiosyncratic after all, but precursors of the onset of a condition
> that
> > is basically physical identity-notation|body language parsing gone
> awry.....
>
>
> yes i sat with a great aunt after a stroke and she made the most amazing
> poetic dada surreal sentance constructions.. like you could really
see/hear
> the hardwire errors of consciouss commiunication at work building another
> langauage which made complete sense to her but no one else untill you
> stsrted to decode it..
>
>
> .> >finally I find a thread in the banter that connects this person/text
to
> me.
> > >reading academic papers made up of a patchwork of quotations
> > >I wonder 'who is actually talking here?'.
>
> yeah but we are all just amalgums each time we speak anyway.. the
> referenceing thing just make sit more formal.. nothing ive written here is
> original..its all just rehashed thoughts and texts from someone else that
> i've consumed over time and regurgitated in my own mix..
> i keep getting back to the idea that nothing is original ..there is no
> newness in the world.. just recycling of finite parts..
>
> melinda
>
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
subscribe ^^^^^^^^above!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: "melinda rackham" <melinda@unsw.edu.au>
To: <empyre@imap.cofa.unsw.edu.au>
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [-empyre-] COLLISION SINGS
>
> K+M wrote
> > >memory is one string, both embodied and disembodied memories,
> > >as unreliable as bodies and words.
> >
> > .........how do we feel about attribution of ownership in regards 2
> > mem(e)ories?........
>
>
> i also think there is an energetic line that binds them.. a sticky
virtual
> protein string, maybe its somehow enmeshed in the electrical energetic
> bursts thata make my computer screen and the web happen... also i truely
> believe i have gene memories.. memories and familiaraties that have
nothing
> to do with my conscious lived experience on or offline.. (um and i DONT
mean
> new age past-lives..i mean memory that is physically encoded) so im
> wondering about memory that is physically encoded in web personalities..?
> our memory of them their memories of themselves..
>
> ....i find watching pre-parkinson's footage of michael j fox so
> > fascinating, as u realise that those idiosyncratic body-gestures may not
b
> > so idiosyncratic after all, but precursors of the onset of a condition
> that
> > is basically physical identity-notation|body language parsing gone
> awry.....
>
>
> yes i sat with a great aunt after a stroke and she made the most amazing
> poetic dada surreal sentance constructions.. like you could really
see/hear
> the hardwire errors of consciouss commiunication at work building another
> langauage which made complete sense to her but no one else untill you
> stsrted to decode it..
>
>
> .> >finally I find a thread in the banter that connects this person/text
to
> me.
> > >reading academic papers made up of a patchwork of quotations
> > >I wonder 'who is actually talking here?'.
>
> yeah but we are all just amalgums each time we speak anyway.. the
> referenceing thing just make sit more formal.. nothing ive written here is
> original..its all just rehashed thoughts and texts from someone else that
> i've consumed over time and regurgitated in my own mix..
> i keep getting back to the idea that nothing is original ..there is no
> newness in the world.. just recycling of finite parts..
>
> melinda
>
> _______________________________________________
> empyre forum
> empyre@lists.cofa.unsw.edu.au
> http://www.subtle.net/empyre
subscribe ^^^^^^^^above!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: I have a theory =
----- Original Message -----
From: "marc.garrett" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 12:35 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: I have a theory =
> I have a theory =
>
> That all dinasours were thin at one end - fat in the middle - And then
thin
> at the other end.
>
> This is my theory and I am sticking to it.
>
> Unless of course someone else proves otherwise...
>
> marc
not bad theory
i have a theory that bands whose native language is not english
think that when they sing on english they can sing about anything
even if their music is awful
http://www.epitonic.com/artists/embellish.html
From: "marc.garrett" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 12:35 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: I have a theory =
> I have a theory =
>
> That all dinasours were thin at one end - fat in the middle - And then
thin
> at the other end.
>
> This is my theory and I am sticking to it.
>
> Unless of course someone else proves otherwise...
>
> marc
not bad theory
i have a theory that bands whose native language is not english
think that when they sing on english they can sing about anything
even if their music is awful
http://www.epitonic.com/artists/embellish.html
Re: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and otherstuff
Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and other stufflisa=
jewbratt said it very nicely: "...programers, when you need one, they're n=
ever there
that's why i had to learn per=
l ..."
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Kirsch
To: wowm
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and othe=
rstuff
why not simplhy try to put a good coder and a good artist together
i know its very hard to doe (mindset and so on)
but otherwise we have to wait for another generation of artists before we=
can go o n producing things
marCus
on 11/8/02 13:07, wowm at wowm@wowm.org wrote:
you forgot: "bad artists, bad coders"
----- Original Message -----
From: Pall Thayer <mailto:pall@fa.is>
To: Jess Loseby <mailto:jess@rssgallery.com>
Cc: list@rhizome.org
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and =
other stuff
So, if I go out in the mornings and collect rosebuds and dandelions a=
nd scan them in to use for colors in Flash, can I still be 6RC?
Seriously, what the Flash debate comes down to (and I think I said th=
is before, about 3 or 4 years ago) is the fact that there is no such thing =
as an "easy" medium. There are alot of people out there doing Flash stuff b=
ecause Flash is so "easy" to use. But unless they spend time to "really" le=
arn the medium, what they do is never going to be great. Also we have alot =
of people who are good coders and bad artists and good artists but bad code=
rs. Unless they can become both, what they do is most likely going to be ra=
ther insignificant. But again, Flash is a good medium that has a lot to off=
er and I think shunning it is antiproductive to the net art community.
Pall
Hinn 10.08.2002 kl. 23:54 ritadhi Jess Loseby:
hello,
just thought i'd stop by and have my usual moan...
stop me if if you've heard it before..er, like the last 20 time we =
debated
the rules..:-)
i tend to think the rules as a loose general guide-line or an ideal=
can be
good thing for some (although i also kind of think one point of bei=
ng an
artist is to break any possible rule that's going but that's by the=
by..) I
also think that if you can follow them and produce the kind of work=
that
eryk is at the moment then its got to be a good thing for some arti=
sts
BUT
why do we always have to slid so quickly into "flash is corporate,=
crappy, obvious crap" discussion..
firstly, if you have a programming background, lovely! - enjoy the =
coding
guys, there's little doubt about the freedom it gives you. But flas=
h makes
the net accessible to the many artists who haven't got the
time/money/inclination to spend god knows how long learning another=
language when they they have a pretty user-friendly one that means=
they can play with artistic ideas rather than programming ones stra=
ight
away.
Secondly, when I was creating textiles long ago, there used to be t=
hese
boring unending debates about useing 'natural dyes' against ready=
mixed ones. The argument being that ready mixed dyes were for plebs=
who could be arsed to go out there and LEARN the craft, who weren't=
REAL artists because they didn't know the DEEP personal satisfactio=
n
that came from gathering rosehips at dawn and boiling them down for=
80 hours to produce the EXACT shade of pink for their ART. Same
goes with this debate. Flash is seen as the cheep, commercial, cop-=
out
for the lazy guys. YAWN. it's just a kind of pride. Coding takes lo=
nger,
takes longer to learn, is clever... so it HAS to be better,yes?
well, perhaps if it wasn't about art maybe. But whether an artwork=
'works' as a piece has little to do with the time the artist has ta=
ken to
learn, where they learned, or how they did it. You can spend 6 mont=
hs
coding a piece and it can still be crap. You can 6 months of a flas=
h
piece and it can be crap. You can manipulate an image in 20 minutes=
and it can be bloody brilliant. Because artworks have much more abo=
ut
them than the tools...it 'works' as a piece of art because of one o=
r more
of a mix of aesthetics, form, content, style, colour (or lack of), =
tone ("),
agenda, politics, play, text, texture, sound, emotion, reaction(s),=
observation, rebellion etc etc etc (delete or add to taste)
perhaps its the old art and craft divide again. Craft has always be=
about
the 'skill' of the craftsman, art (arguably) about the 'object'. A =
craftsman
wouldn't use flash and artist might...? Perhaps it is the same way =
a
craftsman would only use the best wood to make a beautiful table
whereas an artist would make the table out of teabags, matchsticks,=
lego blocks..just about anything if it said and did what the artist=
wanted
it to.
Macromedia Is shite. I use it all the time and I hate them. I put u=
p with it
with it because it frees me from my fear of code (alien language) a=
nd
lets me explore. I'm working with video at the moment. I just could=
n't
have done with it what I'm doing in flash without another 3 years, =
rather
more money and a new brain (mine melts at anything above basic
scripting)
'nuff said. I've bored even myself.
jess. o
/^ rssgallery.com
][
+ vs. every art school ever...
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.=
rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29=
.php3
_____________________________________
Pall Thayer
myndlistamadhur/kennari
artist/teacher
Fjolbrautaskolanum vidh Armula (www.fa.is)
http://www.this.is/pallit
_____________________________________
jewbratt said it very nicely: "...programers, when you need one, they're n=
ever there
that's why i had to learn per=
l ..."
----- Original Message -----
From: Marcus Kirsch
To: wowm
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and othe=
rstuff
why not simplhy try to put a good coder and a good artist together
i know its very hard to doe (mindset and so on)
but otherwise we have to wait for another generation of artists before we=
can go o n producing things
marCus
on 11/8/02 13:07, wowm at wowm@wowm.org wrote:
you forgot: "bad artists, bad coders"
----- Original Message -----
From: Pall Thayer <mailto:pall@fa.is>
To: Jess Loseby <mailto:jess@rssgallery.com>
Cc: list@rhizome.org
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and =
other stuff
So, if I go out in the mornings and collect rosebuds and dandelions a=
nd scan them in to use for colors in Flash, can I still be 6RC?
Seriously, what the Flash debate comes down to (and I think I said th=
is before, about 3 or 4 years ago) is the fact that there is no such thing =
as an "easy" medium. There are alot of people out there doing Flash stuff b=
ecause Flash is so "easy" to use. But unless they spend time to "really" le=
arn the medium, what they do is never going to be great. Also we have alot =
of people who are good coders and bad artists and good artists but bad code=
rs. Unless they can become both, what they do is most likely going to be ra=
ther insignificant. But again, Flash is a good medium that has a lot to off=
er and I think shunning it is antiproductive to the net art community.
Pall
Hinn 10.08.2002 kl. 23:54 ritadhi Jess Loseby:
hello,
just thought i'd stop by and have my usual moan...
stop me if if you've heard it before..er, like the last 20 time we =
debated
the rules..:-)
i tend to think the rules as a loose general guide-line or an ideal=
can be
good thing for some (although i also kind of think one point of bei=
ng an
artist is to break any possible rule that's going but that's by the=
by..) I
also think that if you can follow them and produce the kind of work=
that
eryk is at the moment then its got to be a good thing for some arti=
sts
BUT
why do we always have to slid so quickly into "flash is corporate,=
crappy, obvious crap" discussion..
firstly, if you have a programming background, lovely! - enjoy the =
coding
guys, there's little doubt about the freedom it gives you. But flas=
h makes
the net accessible to the many artists who haven't got the
time/money/inclination to spend god knows how long learning another=
language when they they have a pretty user-friendly one that means=
they can play with artistic ideas rather than programming ones stra=
ight
away.
Secondly, when I was creating textiles long ago, there used to be t=
hese
boring unending debates about useing 'natural dyes' against ready=
mixed ones. The argument being that ready mixed dyes were for plebs=
who could be arsed to go out there and LEARN the craft, who weren't=
REAL artists because they didn't know the DEEP personal satisfactio=
n
that came from gathering rosehips at dawn and boiling them down for=
80 hours to produce the EXACT shade of pink for their ART. Same
goes with this debate. Flash is seen as the cheep, commercial, cop-=
out
for the lazy guys. YAWN. it's just a kind of pride. Coding takes lo=
nger,
takes longer to learn, is clever... so it HAS to be better,yes?
well, perhaps if it wasn't about art maybe. But whether an artwork=
'works' as a piece has little to do with the time the artist has ta=
ken to
learn, where they learned, or how they did it. You can spend 6 mont=
hs
coding a piece and it can still be crap. You can 6 months of a flas=
h
piece and it can be crap. You can manipulate an image in 20 minutes=
and it can be bloody brilliant. Because artworks have much more abo=
ut
them than the tools...it 'works' as a piece of art because of one o=
r more
of a mix of aesthetics, form, content, style, colour (or lack of), =
tone ("),
agenda, politics, play, text, texture, sound, emotion, reaction(s),=
observation, rebellion etc etc etc (delete or add to taste)
perhaps its the old art and craft divide again. Craft has always be=
about
the 'skill' of the craftsman, art (arguably) about the 'object'. A =
craftsman
wouldn't use flash and artist might...? Perhaps it is the same way =
a
craftsman would only use the best wood to make a beautiful table
whereas an artist would make the table out of teabags, matchsticks,=
lego blocks..just about anything if it said and did what the artist=
wanted
it to.
Macromedia Is shite. I use it all the time and I hate them. I put u=
p with it
with it because it frees me from my fear of code (alien language) a=
nd
lets me explore. I'm working with video at the moment. I just could=
n't
have done with it what I'm doing in flash without another 3 years, =
rather
more money and a new brain (mine melts at anything above basic
scripting)
'nuff said. I've bored even myself.
jess. o
/^ rssgallery.com
][
+ vs. every art school ever...
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.=
rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29=
.php3
_____________________________________
Pall Thayer
myndlistamadhur/kennari
artist/teacher
Fjolbrautaskolanum vidh Armula (www.fa.is)
http://www.this.is/pallit
_____________________________________
Re: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes
david, oh, david
"When Mike met Gally"
http://www.freemanifesta.org/artists/wowm.html
//sorry for sal's typing//
----- Original Message -----
From: "Plasma Studii" <office@plasmastudii.org>
To: "Christopher Fahey [askrom]" <askROM@graphpaper.com>
Cc: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes
> Chris, man,
>
> this is sheer boo-honkey doo doo. I hope you're ok.
>
> Mike gets off on this hot naked guy and he gets off chiseling marble
> (and probably gets off even more knowing how good he was at
> chiselling), but he may feel a little obligated to give the statue a
> name with some historical/religious significance. But the name is
> just tacked on for the folks with their heads screwed on too tight,
> sitting behind their thinking caps and playing with their pencils.
>
> And for those freaks among us who aren't Martians or a Philistines,
> the Statue of David is a pretty good Western icon for dusting out
> those ever-accumulating things we call "thoughts" from our heads. If
> we aren't careful, and clean from time to time, they start building
> up into dust bunnies and we end up unable to see meaninglessness for
> all its glory!
>
> Judson
>
>
> > > No apologies/explanaitions/intros is wonderful but
> > > not as wonderful as beautiful work that needs no explanation. The
> > > statue of David. Nothing there to think about, no words (unless you
> > > happen to be one of those people who can't quite manager to get one's
> > > head out of one's ass), wether you like it or not, just look at it.
> >
> >Unless you're a martian or a philistine (!), there are LOTS of things
> >that you are probably thinking about when you see David.
> >
> >It seems to me that it would greatly help one's appreciation of David to
> >know who the heck that "David" guy is. It's not just Michaelangelo's
> >"Naked Man" - it's "David"! It's got to add *something* to your
> >experience
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> PLASMA STUDII
> http://plasmastudii.org
> 223 E 10th Street
> PMB 130
> New York, NY 10003
> + vs. every art school ever...
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php3
"When Mike met Gally"
http://www.freemanifesta.org/artists/wowm.html
//sorry for sal's typing//
----- Original Message -----
From: "Plasma Studii" <office@plasmastudii.org>
To: "Christopher Fahey [askrom]" <askROM@graphpaper.com>
Cc: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 7:23 AM
Subject: RE: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes
> Chris, man,
>
> this is sheer boo-honkey doo doo. I hope you're ok.
>
> Mike gets off on this hot naked guy and he gets off chiseling marble
> (and probably gets off even more knowing how good he was at
> chiselling), but he may feel a little obligated to give the statue a
> name with some historical/religious significance. But the name is
> just tacked on for the folks with their heads screwed on too tight,
> sitting behind their thinking caps and playing with their pencils.
>
> And for those freaks among us who aren't Martians or a Philistines,
> the Statue of David is a pretty good Western icon for dusting out
> those ever-accumulating things we call "thoughts" from our heads. If
> we aren't careful, and clean from time to time, they start building
> up into dust bunnies and we end up unable to see meaninglessness for
> all its glory!
>
> Judson
>
>
> > > No apologies/explanaitions/intros is wonderful but
> > > not as wonderful as beautiful work that needs no explanation. The
> > > statue of David. Nothing there to think about, no words (unless you
> > > happen to be one of those people who can't quite manager to get one's
> > > head out of one's ass), wether you like it or not, just look at it.
> >
> >Unless you're a martian or a philistine (!), there are LOTS of things
> >that you are probably thinking about when you see David.
> >
> >It seems to me that it would greatly help one's appreciation of David to
> >know who the heck that "David" guy is. It's not just Michaelangelo's
> >"Naked Man" - it's "David"! It's got to add *something* to your
> >experience
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> PLASMA STUDII
> http://plasmastudii.org
> 223 E 10th Street
> PMB 130
> New York, NY 10003
> + vs. every art school ever...
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php3