Re: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and other stuff
you forgot: "bad artists, bad coders"
----- Original Message -----
From: Pall Thayer
To: Jess Loseby
Cc: list@rhizome.org
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and othe=
r stuff
So, if I go out in the mornings and collect rosebuds and dandelions and s=
can them in to use for colors in Flash, can I still be 6RC?
Seriously, what the Flash debate comes down to (and I think I said this b=
efore, about 3 or 4 years ago) is the fact that there is no such thing as a=
n "easy" medium. There are alot of people out there doing Flash stuff becau=
se Flash is so "easy" to use. But unless they spend time to "really" learn =
the medium, what they do is never going to be great. Also we have alot of p=
eople who are good coders and bad artists and good artists but bad coders. =
Unless they can become both, what they do is most likely going to be rather=
insignificant. But again, Flash is a good medium that has a lot to offer a=
nd I think shunning it is antiproductive to the net art community.
Pall
Hinn 10.08.2002 kl. 23:54 ritadhi Jess Loseby:
hello,
just thought i'd stop by and have my usual moan...
stop me if if you've heard it before..er, like the last 20 time we deba=
ted
the rules..:-)
i tend to think the rules as a loose general guide-line or an ideal can=
be
good thing for some (although i also kind of think one point of being a=
n
artist is to break any possible rule that's going but that's by the by.=
.) I
also think that if you can follow them and produce the kind of work tha=
t
eryk is at the moment then its got to be a good thing for some artists
BUT
why do we always have to slid so quickly into "flash is corporate,
crappy, obvious crap" discussion..
firstly, if you have a programming background, lovely! - enjoy the codi=
ng
guys, there's little doubt about the freedom it gives you. But flash ma=
kes
the net accessible to the many artists who haven't got the
time/money/inclination to spend god knows how long learning another
language when they they have a pretty user-friendly one that means
they can play with artistic ideas rather than programming ones straight=
away.
Secondly, when I was creating textiles long ago, there used to be these=
boring unending debates about useing 'natural dyes' against ready
mixed ones. The argument being that ready mixed dyes were for plebs
who could be arsed to go out there and LEARN the craft, who weren't
REAL artists because they didn't know the DEEP personal satisfaction
that came from gathering rosehips at dawn and boiling them down for
80 hours to produce the EXACT shade of pink for their ART. Same
goes with this debate. Flash is seen as the cheep, commercial, cop-out=
for the lazy guys. YAWN. it's just a kind of pride. Coding takes longer=
,
takes longer to learn, is clever... so it HAS to be better,yes?
well, perhaps if it wasn't about art maybe. But whether an artwork
'works' as a piece has little to do with the time the artist has taken =
to
learn, where they learned, or how they did it. You can spend 6 months=
coding a piece and it can still be crap. You can 6 months of a flash
piece and it can be crap. You can manipulate an image in 20 minutes
and it can be bloody brilliant. Because artworks have much more about=
them than the tools...it 'works' as a piece of art because of one or mo=
re
of a mix of aesthetics, form, content, style, colour (or lack of), tone=
("),
agenda, politics, play, text, texture, sound, emotion, reaction(s),
observation, rebellion etc etc etc (delete or add to taste)
perhaps its the old art and craft divide again. Craft has always be abo=
ut
the 'skill' of the craftsman, art (arguably) about the 'object'. A craf=
tsman
wouldn't use flash and artist might...? Perhaps it is the same way a
craftsman would only use the best wood to make a beautiful table
whereas an artist would make the table out of teabags, matchsticks,
lego blocks..just about anything if it said and did what the artist wan=
ted
it to.
Macromedia Is shite. I use it all the time and I hate them. I put up wi=
th it
with it because it frees me from my fear of code (alien language) and=
lets me explore. I'm working with video at the moment. I just couldn't=
have done with it what I'm doing in flash without another 3 years, rath=
er
more money and a new brain (mine melts at anything above basic
scripting)
'nuff said. I've bored even myself.
jess. o
/^ rssgallery.com
][
+ vs. every art school ever...
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php3
_____________________________________
Pall Thayer
myndlistamadhur/kennari
artist/teacher
Fjolbrautaskolanum vidh Armula (www.fa.is)
http://www.this.is/pallit
_____________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: Pall Thayer
To: Jess Loseby
Cc: list@rhizome.org
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and othe=
r stuff
So, if I go out in the mornings and collect rosebuds and dandelions and s=
can them in to use for colors in Flash, can I still be 6RC?
Seriously, what the Flash debate comes down to (and I think I said this b=
efore, about 3 or 4 years ago) is the fact that there is no such thing as a=
n "easy" medium. There are alot of people out there doing Flash stuff becau=
se Flash is so "easy" to use. But unless they spend time to "really" learn =
the medium, what they do is never going to be great. Also we have alot of p=
eople who are good coders and bad artists and good artists but bad coders. =
Unless they can become both, what they do is most likely going to be rather=
insignificant. But again, Flash is a good medium that has a lot to offer a=
nd I think shunning it is antiproductive to the net art community.
Pall
Hinn 10.08.2002 kl. 23:54 ritadhi Jess Loseby:
hello,
just thought i'd stop by and have my usual moan...
stop me if if you've heard it before..er, like the last 20 time we deba=
ted
the rules..:-)
i tend to think the rules as a loose general guide-line or an ideal can=
be
good thing for some (although i also kind of think one point of being a=
n
artist is to break any possible rule that's going but that's by the by.=
.) I
also think that if you can follow them and produce the kind of work tha=
t
eryk is at the moment then its got to be a good thing for some artists
BUT
why do we always have to slid so quickly into "flash is corporate,
crappy, obvious crap" discussion..
firstly, if you have a programming background, lovely! - enjoy the codi=
ng
guys, there's little doubt about the freedom it gives you. But flash ma=
kes
the net accessible to the many artists who haven't got the
time/money/inclination to spend god knows how long learning another
language when they they have a pretty user-friendly one that means
they can play with artistic ideas rather than programming ones straight=
away.
Secondly, when I was creating textiles long ago, there used to be these=
boring unending debates about useing 'natural dyes' against ready
mixed ones. The argument being that ready mixed dyes were for plebs
who could be arsed to go out there and LEARN the craft, who weren't
REAL artists because they didn't know the DEEP personal satisfaction
that came from gathering rosehips at dawn and boiling them down for
80 hours to produce the EXACT shade of pink for their ART. Same
goes with this debate. Flash is seen as the cheep, commercial, cop-out=
for the lazy guys. YAWN. it's just a kind of pride. Coding takes longer=
,
takes longer to learn, is clever... so it HAS to be better,yes?
well, perhaps if it wasn't about art maybe. But whether an artwork
'works' as a piece has little to do with the time the artist has taken =
to
learn, where they learned, or how they did it. You can spend 6 months=
coding a piece and it can still be crap. You can 6 months of a flash
piece and it can be crap. You can manipulate an image in 20 minutes
and it can be bloody brilliant. Because artworks have much more about=
them than the tools...it 'works' as a piece of art because of one or mo=
re
of a mix of aesthetics, form, content, style, colour (or lack of), tone=
("),
agenda, politics, play, text, texture, sound, emotion, reaction(s),
observation, rebellion etc etc etc (delete or add to taste)
perhaps its the old art and craft divide again. Craft has always be abo=
ut
the 'skill' of the craftsman, art (arguably) about the 'object'. A craf=
tsman
wouldn't use flash and artist might...? Perhaps it is the same way a
craftsman would only use the best wood to make a beautiful table
whereas an artist would make the table out of teabags, matchsticks,
lego blocks..just about anything if it said and did what the artist wan=
ted
it to.
Macromedia Is shite. I use it all the time and I hate them. I put up wi=
th it
with it because it frees me from my fear of code (alien language) and=
lets me explore. I'm working with video at the moment. I just couldn't=
have done with it what I'm doing in flash without another 3 years, rath=
er
more money and a new brain (mine melts at anything above basic
scripting)
'nuff said. I've bored even myself.
jess. o
/^ rssgallery.com
][
+ vs. every art school ever...
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php3
_____________________________________
Pall Thayer
myndlistamadhur/kennari
artist/teacher
Fjolbrautaskolanum vidh Armula (www.fa.is)
http://www.this.is/pallit
_____________________________________
Re: The Artist speaking of his Brushes
rule 2 - one of the best rules
when i pointed that out on -empyre- list, they all jumped on me:
how can you say that?!no intros?! blasphemy!!that's new public out there! t=
hey won't understand a thing otherwise!
m
> Imagine Rule #5 of the Six Rules Towards A New Internet Art.
>
> http://rhizome.org/object.rhiz?3236
>
>
> -e.
>
>
>
> 100LUZiano testi paul wrote:
>
> >2:00 a.m. Aug. 8, 2002 PDT
> >RECIFE, Brazil -- Imagine a celebration of digital art that bans works
focusing on anything related to computers and technology.
> >
----- Original Message -----
From: Nmherman@aol.com
To: eryk@maine.rr.com ; nonsense@100luz.com.ar ; list@rhizome.org
Cc: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes
The Six rules are fairly noumenous however they do address 1. The questi=
on of technology in design and 2. The number of human biology, i.e. 6. See=
ms to me they exist with this basic intention, and I acclaim Eryk in making=
simple basic rules. No one else seems to like it but it's a worthy vein, =
rule-making.
I myself do not adhere or disadhere to the Six Rules, per se, as I am sti=
ll in the process of a massive quadrahistoric dramaturgy of 4 and 4 governs=
my artistic process at the current time. By reason of technical poverty a=
nd a textual line, all my work before and after the Six Rules falls under o=
r out of them at no great diminution i.e. standard deviation.
I would also like to be known henceforth primarily as a "writer and mathe=
matician." This is my preference, indeed my destiny. Those who might tar =
me as "a pschyo-polymath blasphemer" or heretic for saying "the six rules p=
lus a/k/h/a equals ten dimensions of time in a 6/4 universe" are just not c=
orrect imao.
However as we all know, it's in the numbers that do not add up we find th=
e error-term, the art.
Davis Jarman
genius2000.net
++
In a message dated 8/9/2002 1:03:45 AM Central Daylight Time, eryk@maine.=
rr.com writes:
Imagine Rule #5 of the Six Rules Towards A New Internet Art.
http://rhizome.org/object.rhiz?3236
-e.
100LUZiano testi paul wrote:
>2:00 a.m. Aug. 8, 2002 PDT
>RECIFE, Brazil -- Imagine a celebration of digital art that bans works=
focusing on anything related to computers and technology.
when i pointed that out on -empyre- list, they all jumped on me:
how can you say that?!no intros?! blasphemy!!that's new public out there! t=
hey won't understand a thing otherwise!
m
> Imagine Rule #5 of the Six Rules Towards A New Internet Art.
>
> http://rhizome.org/object.rhiz?3236
>
>
> -e.
>
>
>
> 100LUZiano testi paul wrote:
>
> >2:00 a.m. Aug. 8, 2002 PDT
> >RECIFE, Brazil -- Imagine a celebration of digital art that bans works
focusing on anything related to computers and technology.
> >
----- Original Message -----
From: Nmherman@aol.com
To: eryk@maine.rr.com ; nonsense@100luz.com.ar ; list@rhizome.org
Cc: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: The Artist speaking of his Brushes
The Six rules are fairly noumenous however they do address 1. The questi=
on of technology in design and 2. The number of human biology, i.e. 6. See=
ms to me they exist with this basic intention, and I acclaim Eryk in making=
simple basic rules. No one else seems to like it but it's a worthy vein, =
rule-making.
I myself do not adhere or disadhere to the Six Rules, per se, as I am sti=
ll in the process of a massive quadrahistoric dramaturgy of 4 and 4 governs=
my artistic process at the current time. By reason of technical poverty a=
nd a textual line, all my work before and after the Six Rules falls under o=
r out of them at no great diminution i.e. standard deviation.
I would also like to be known henceforth primarily as a "writer and mathe=
matician." This is my preference, indeed my destiny. Those who might tar =
me as "a pschyo-polymath blasphemer" or heretic for saying "the six rules p=
lus a/k/h/a equals ten dimensions of time in a 6/4 universe" are just not c=
orrect imao.
However as we all know, it's in the numbers that do not add up we find th=
e error-term, the art.
Davis Jarman
genius2000.net
++
In a message dated 8/9/2002 1:03:45 AM Central Daylight Time, eryk@maine.=
rr.com writes:
Imagine Rule #5 of the Six Rules Towards A New Internet Art.
http://rhizome.org/object.rhiz?3236
-e.
100LUZiano testi paul wrote:
>2:00 a.m. Aug. 8, 2002 PDT
>RECIFE, Brazil -- Imagine a celebration of digital art that bans works=
focusing on anything related to computers and technology.
flash-help
hi
anyone knows why flash texts can't have accents on the letters
( e a etc.)
thanks
m
www.kalogera.net/mpd/dor.htm
/still in working phase/
anyone knows why flash texts can't have accents on the letters
( e a etc.)
thanks
m
www.kalogera.net/mpd/dor.htm
/still in working phase/
Re: Re: getty.JPG
------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C22E72.78D416B0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
pic attached
----- Original Message -----
From: furtherfield
To: Nmherman@aol.com ; list@rhizome.org
Cc: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 11:22 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: getty.JPG
It wouild be great to see various visceral iamges other than poo - for in=
stance - tears. One could write tears. Declaring one's fluidity 'literally'.
marc
------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C22E72.78D416B0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>pic attached</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LE=
FT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>Fro=
m:</B>
<A title=info@furtherfield.org
href="mailto:info@furtherfield.org">furtherfield</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=Nmherman@aol.com
href="mailto:Nmherman@aol.com">Nmherman@aol.com</A> ; <A
title=list@rhizome.org href="mailto:list@rhizome.org">list@rhizome.or=
g</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=7-11@mail.ljudmila.=
org
href="mailto:7-11@mail.ljudmila.org">7-11@mail.ljudmila.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 19, 2002 11:22=
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RHIZOME_RAW: Re: getty.JP=
G</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It wouild be great to see various viscer=
al iamges
other than poo - for instance - tears. One could write tears. Declaring o=
ne's
fluidity 'literally'.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>marc</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H=
TML>
------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C22E72.78D416B0--
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
pic attached
----- Original Message -----
From: furtherfield
To: Nmherman@aol.com ; list@rhizome.org
Cc: 7-11@mail.ljudmila.org
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 11:22 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: getty.JPG
It wouild be great to see various visceral iamges other than poo - for in=
stance - tears. One could write tears. Declaring one's fluidity 'literally'.
marc
------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C22E72.78D416B0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>pic attached</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LE=
FT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>Fro=
m:</B>
<A title=info@furtherfield.org
href="mailto:info@furtherfield.org">furtherfield</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=Nmherman@aol.com
href="mailto:Nmherman@aol.com">Nmherman@aol.com</A> ; <A
title=list@rhizome.org href="mailto:list@rhizome.org">list@rhizome.or=
g</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=7-11@mail.ljudmila.=
org
href="mailto:7-11@mail.ljudmila.org">7-11@mail.ljudmila.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 19, 2002 11:22=
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RHIZOME_RAW: Re: getty.JP=
G</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It wouild be great to see various viscer=
al iamges
other than poo - for instance - tears. One could write tears. Declaring o=
ne's
fluidity 'literally'.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>marc</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H=
TML>
------=_NextPart_001_0013_01C22E72.78D416B0--
Re: [T7U9S2W] Unauthorized Use
no no no no
we should ALL link to quilt where is that link to pic
In a message dated 7/17/2002 7:00:05 PM Central Daylight Time, info@further=
field.org writes:
Personally, I'd get rid of the image itself and replace it with some
text linking why you are not aloud to show the image - even though they=
do
not know who's it is. A very uptight/backward form of thinking. In a s=
ense
you should be able to take them to court for hassling you really...
Link to this http://www.geocities.com/genius-2000/getty.JPG
And taketh them to the public courts of law.
Hard, class-action, anti-trust, pro-consumer, the Herman Act. Mock for $=
20 milionis.
Max Herman
artforum.com
++
we should ALL link to quilt where is that link to pic
In a message dated 7/17/2002 7:00:05 PM Central Daylight Time, info@further=
field.org writes:
Personally, I'd get rid of the image itself and replace it with some
text linking why you are not aloud to show the image - even though they=
do
not know who's it is. A very uptight/backward form of thinking. In a s=
ense
you should be able to take them to court for hassling you really...
Link to this http://www.geocities.com/genius-2000/getty.JPG
And taketh them to the public courts of law.
Hard, class-action, anti-trust, pro-consumer, the Herman Act. Mock for $=
20 milionis.
Max Herman
artforum.com
++