Nad
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Works in Berlin Germany

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DISCUSSION

Re: what is the name for this type of work?


Jim Andrews wrote:

> I am wondering if there is a name for a type of work that is
> aleatorically
> generative (the entities generated are, in part, the result of random
> processes) and the idea is to select among the entities as to which
> are
> meaningful and which aren't. In other words, the generation is not
> intended
> to produce nothing but gems but, instead, invites selectivity amongst
> the
> generated entities.
>
> ja
> http://vispo.com
>
>

Jim:

i dont know, you may be have a genetic algorithm in mind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_algorithm

the selection scheme is also called sometimes "survival of the fittest".

******
Dirk:

You may be had a "random seed" in mind. this is usually
an integer number, which initializes an algorithm to generate a certain
sequence of numbers. the generated numbers look like random numbers, but
they are not, since given the random seed you can reproduce them.
so they are called pseudorandom numbers. hence the choice of
a random seed is important for producing "randomness" with a computer.

******

let me know if i misunderstood.

nad

DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3D Holographic projectors?


Dirk Vekemans wrote:

>
> > Dirk Vekemans wrote:
> >> it may have been something similar to these:
> > > http://www.laser-magic.com/transscreen.html
> > >
> > >
> > with 3D projection i mean something where you have to wear
> > glasses in order to see 3D. the above link is of that kind.
>
> Don't know Nad, but they specifically claim you don't need glasses on
> the
> page...

often these companies like to be blurry to sell their products, but
actually i found this website rather clear.

so what they mean is that you dont need glasses for viewing the 2D projection on the transscreen. and since the 2D projection is so to say
floating in the air as it is projected to a transparent foil,
the 2D image may look a bit as if it WOULD BE 3D, but it IS NOT 3D.
you have no depth in your image.

you get a 3D image with the transscreen if you wear glasses and if the
projected material is made for 3D, just like in any
other 3D projection.

nad

nad

DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3D Holographic projectors?


Dirk Vekemans wrote:

>
> > i dont know what they did there, but i assume they used a
> > special screen. are you sure that it was really a holographic
> > projection or just a 3D projection?
>
> I'm not sure, i only caught a glimps of it, the kids were making lots
> of
> noise :-), it may have been something similar to these:
> http://www.laser-magic.com/transscreen.html
>
>
with 3D projection i mean something where you have to wear
glasses in order to see 3D. the above link is of that kind.
its just a transparent foil on which you can project something.
it preserves the polarization of light so you can watch
3D with glasses, like in a cave-like environment.
with 3D LCD Screens you dont need glasses for viewing 3D.
i guess the sony thing was rather something like a 3D LCD.

> >
> > why a cathedral?
>
> Not a cathedral, th� Cathedral of erotic Misery cfr. my
> Schwitters-inspired
> project at www.vilt.net . Don't think the Vatican will go for it ;-)

..probably :-) :-)

also doesnt look like too much christian iconography
was put into it :-) :-)

> What i want to project is a considerably enlarged 3d image of the
> wooden
> statue i have made of the Cathedral. The statue itself is only 19x25x7
> cm
> see http://www.vilt.net/nkdee/data/photo/fo_print.jpg but i want it
> visible
> and floating in mid air some 3 meters high, it can be flickering,
> affected
> by outdoor conditions or look unreal otherwise it only needs to create
> an
> illusion of something being up there and the statue should be
> recognisable.
> I would only start off a time sequence of projection when some user
> input
> whas recorded, either through the internet or at the wall downstairs.
>
>
> > a much cheaper variant would be to use a laser light show,
> > where the laser beams are tracing out the building in a very
> > sketchy fashion. i would like that actually better because it
> > would dematerialize the cathedral or house and put an
> > emphasis on its functioning as a shed and in the case of a
> > cathedral may be also as being a symbol of a link to "higher
> > forces" or whatever. and you would get away a bit from the
> > christian iconography.
> I would like to start with the cheapest solution available and
> gradually
> make it look more convincing, in other versions of the set-up that
> would be
> restricted to indoor installations.
>
> Someone else mailed me privately she saw something like this being
> done in
> the eighties, so i guess that might have been a laser projection. Do
> you or
> anyone else know what quality of image such techniques might be
> capable of
> in outdoor conditions? Or whether you could have the static 3d input
> mixed
> with other input like words or part of words going through it, whether
> you
> could fade in/out inputs and overlap them in time?
>

you can do a lot of nice stuff with laser lights, but you cant
get a halfway realistic 3D copy of your work. laser light shows
make basically 3D light sculptures with light rays.
In particular this means that the light emanates from a source
(the laser) and then goes to "infinity" unless there is something
in its way. so your cathedral would have to look differently.

they have these light shows often in discoteques or cinemas,
which means also that they are more or less in the price range of
consumer electronics.
there are also artists which work with them.
may be there is someone in the rhizome community???

> > however i have to add that on a personal level i wouldnt like
> > to have my personal comlaints and grieves being displayed
> > openly on a videoscreen in a belgium suburb....
>
> Oh i don't know about that. When the New Orleans disaster was
> happening, for
> instance, people were very eager to file their complaints/griefs on
> several
> blogs. People need a place to speak to/of their griefs when everything
> else
> lets them down.

ok i got it. but i think this is a bit different from the letters in
the wailing wall, but may be i am wrong.

what will happen to all your collected data? (i always wondered
what happens to all those letters in the wailing wall, like when
they fall down or when they get washed out etc.)

>
> It could be done, less expensively, as pure (virtual if you want but
> i
> think that's a bad word) net.art too, but that would be missing out on
> the
> 'materialising' part of the project as it already is taking its form
> in
> things like paintings and satues and the like.
>

..making a light sculpture is not really "materializing".... :-)

but in short: what i understood, what you have in mind is not
yet FULLY realizable in terms of todays technology (at least
thats what i think...) but probably it will be
realizable in a few years. i think there is a technological jump
taking place right now.

nad

DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: 3D Holographic projectors?


>
> So perhaps what i want is possible?
> Now a few months ago i saw some Sony CEO deliver a speech to an
> audience
> indoor on television. Apparantly it was taped and delivered by
> holographic
> projection in a convincing way and the sony people were ofcourse
> equally
> convincing in claiming it to be the next revolution in projection
> technology.

i dont know what they did there, but i assume they used a
special screen. are you sure that it was really a holographic
projection or just a 3D projection?

>
> The project i have in mind would need to project a convincing image of
> a
> cathedral structure rising above a flat-roofed building some 3 meters
> above
> street level. It would have to be convincing if you walk past it from
> the
> street below so the view angle could be restricted to some 100
> degrees.The
> image itself would need to be 3x3x1 m. I would prefer being able to
> mix a
> static 3d image of the cathedral with some close-to-real-time
> generated
> images, but a simple static image would do too i suppose. The one
> thing it
> can't have is having screens visible, not even during daytime. Part of
> the
> meaning/poetry of the project would be for the image to gradually
> visualise
> as it gets dark, have rain drizzle through it etc. On the street level
> the
> project would include 10 'regular' video screens on a wall showing
> interactive net-content (the text of complaints/prayers submitted by
> users
> worldwide to the Cathedral mixed with updating images of human
> attrocities,
> natural disasters and statistics on our deteriorating global
> condition- in
> short a kind of wall of complaints like the one in Jerusalem but a bit
> more,
> er, explicit is the word i think).
>
> It would have to be in some totally unknown place, like the suburbian
> part
> of Belgium i live in, but i'd happily lend the cathedral to anyone
> able to
> get it done somewhere else. I just thought it'd be nice to use
> emergent tech
> and spend some big money to focus on what's really happening. Don't
> think
> you could walk past it and not get the idea that something needs to be
> done,
> your life needed to change like mr rilke is quoted as saying in
> another
> discussion here.
>

why a cathedral? do you want the vatican to fund your project? :-)
you could need that. :-)
it seems to me very expensive to realize what you have in mind.
however in principle i could imagine that the project is
technically realizable in part - but i think it won't go
without a screen. there are projects where people try to
illuminate dust particles etc. in
order to get a 3D image, but all what i saw sofar was not very
convincing. it needs just enormous computing power, since you have
to trace the particles. or you have a grid, which is almost
like a screen.

but you could have a screen which is not so apparent in terms
of material, like transparent (may be acrylic) glas. i could
imagine that one etches (or uses a mechanical process) the
glass in such a way that it can be
used as a background for a 3D projection. may be its enough
to put on a structured plastic foil.
3D LCD panels work in a similar fashion as the typical 3D postcards
you can buy everywhere. i.e. there are two images interlaced in
stripes and plastic lenses are focusing them in such a way that
each eye sees only one picture - thats how you get the 3D information.
i imagine that the same is possible for the projection, but i
do not know of any companies this would need some research.
or may be someone of the rhizome community knows?

a much cheaper variant would be to use a laser light show, where
the laser beams are tracing out the building in a very sketchy
fashion. i would like that actually better because it would
dematerialize the cathedral or house and put an emphasis
on its functioning as a shed
and in the case of a cathedral may be also as being a symbol of a
link to "higher forces" or whatever. and you would get away
a bit from the christian iconography.

however i have to add that on a personal level
i wouldnt like to have my personal
comlaints and grieves being displayed openly on a videoscreen
in a belgium suburb....

nad

DISCUSSION

Re: 3D Holographic projectors?


Dirk Vekemans wrote:

> Hi all,
> Anybody have any idea what these things
> (http://www.io2technology.com/)
> cost?

it looks to me that the company is still in the start
up phase, i checked some of the listed retailers and nobody
had their products on stock. it seems you have to call
them for a price. let us know what it is if you do so...

however as i understood their page they are not selling a
3D Holographic projector, but a transparent 2D touch screen.

if you want something of the princess leia type then
i would say a head mounted 3D display comes probably closest to that.
there are also 3D screens, where you need no head mount
or glasses but well you cant walk around them.
and if you look for the classic holography (interference
with light beams) in connection with video then this seems
to be even more rare.
at east the last -more or less recent- project i heard of in that
direction was this one:
http://www.trnmag.com/Stories/2003/032603/3D_holo_video_arrives_032603.html
or
http://innovation.swmed.edu/research/instrumentation/res_inst_dev3d.html

but may be someone knows about some other recent project
in "classical" holography and video - would be interesting to hear!

> If anything exists already that could project in open-air?
> I was thinking it would be nice if some group/org could make these
> things
> available, have us propose projects for them to periodically show them
> in
> major cities (NY, Melbourne, Paris, Bagdad, London, Bejing, Alken) or
> travelling art shows.

.if you include berlin into this list than i think this is a
good idea (...just joking...:-))

nad