Michael Szpakowski
Since the beginning
Works in Harlow United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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DISCUSSION

new self portraits by a number of people; call for more


New self portraits by
Jason Carty, Robert Roth, Emily Sheahan, Roula Sorour,
Sohnya Sayres, Carletta Joy Walker, Anna Szpakowska
and Roxanne Wolanczyk
added to

DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: setting up the punch line


*..and another thing..*
one of the things it seems to me at least, that is a
necessary condition for great art is a , for want of a
better word, a *richness* -a depth to the piece which
means that it repays multiple viewings, readings,
hearings, visits with new insights.
Paradoxically its the very perfection of the surface
finish, the dotting of the Is and crossing of the Ts
in much commercial work that somehow closes a piece
off and precludes this quality.
(and why is it essential that it be so closed off
?-because if you're paying top dollar for a invitation
to folk to spend their hard earned cash on your
product, however hip the artist you hire, however
apparently open the surface of the ad or whatever she
crafts for you, finally, finally you're paying money
for a *lack of ambiguity* -"buy my product" .And if
its say, a game, however subtle it is ultimately it
must be *encompassable*, *soluble* by any of your
target market, for you to make money -the twists and
turns, the resonances, must be finite)
I speculate that a certain lack of surface finish or
at least an unconcern or deprioritizing of it could
be related to what leaves a work more in dialogue with
the specatator, listener, whatever and with its
context, that creates this richness, this resonance.
michael

--- Michael Szpakowski <szpako@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> < Actually, I think this is a difficult one, because
> Degas worked before
> the advent of modern art.>
> Did he? Do you think he thought that? Where is the
> magic line?
> How is it relevant? What difference does it make?
>
> <I never
> meant to say that "polish and finish" was ever
> exclusively about a
> literal surface. >
>
> OK -fair enough - I *was* addressing simply the
> question of literal finish -I do think Curt's
> original
> point vis a vis craftspeople and artists has force
> in
> this entirely literal sense.
> I often feel that commercial graphic design, films
> &c
> are in some sense denser , more finished , more
> carefully constructed than many artworks appear to
> be.
> Does this make them "better" -well I think not.
> Can we learn from them -absolutely.
> Is there a difference between lack of surface finish
> where the value of the artwork is undamaged and
> indeed
> enhanced by the artist's focus on particular details
> at the expense of others, and sloppiness/laziness/
> contempt for the audience - of course.
> Both exist and we have to argue about which is
> which!
> best
> michael
>
>
> =====
> *** You are asked for a jusqu'a car-portrait
> 'imagining ourselves' contribution.
>
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/self_portraits/contribute.html
> It black and an empty image must be
> qu'avec null, he n'est become the methods and
> material digitali/fotografici, (acceptable = ink,
> matita, coal, varnish; acceptable not = computer the
> photography &c)
>
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/self_portraits/index.html
> ***
>
>
>
>
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DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: setting up the punch line


< Actually, I think this is a difficult one, because
Degas worked before
the advent of modern art.>
Did he? Do you think he thought that? Where is the
magic line?
How is it relevant? What difference does it make?

<I never
meant to say that "polish and finish" was ever
exclusively about a
literal surface. >

OK -fair enough - I *was* addressing simply the
question of literal finish -I do think Curt's original
point vis a vis craftspeople and artists has force in
this entirely literal sense.
I often feel that commercial graphic design, films &c
are in some sense denser , more finished , more
carefully constructed than many artworks appear to be.
Does this make them "better" -well I think not.
Can we learn from them -absolutely.
Is there a difference between lack of surface finish
where the value of the artwork is undamaged and indeed
enhanced by the artist's focus on particular details
at the expense of others, and sloppiness/laziness/
contempt for the audience - of course.
Both exist and we have to argue about which is which!
best
michael

=====
*** You are asked for a jusqu'a car-portrait 'imagining ourselves' contribution.
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/self_portraits/contribute.html
It black and an empty image must be qu'avec null, he n'est become the methods and material digitali/fotografici, (acceptable = ink, matita, coal, varnish; acceptable not = computer the photography &c)
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/self_portraits/index.html ***

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DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: setting up the punch line


>cough< Saatchi >cough<
I rest my case - most of the Saatchi stable show
neither significant craft skills nor any discernible
artistic merit (with the signal exception of the
marvellous Grayson Perry who has both - only his stuff
, the two Peter Doigs and the Bratbys held near
suicidal depression at bay for me during a visit to
the awful South Bank Saatchi gallery last Summer.

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DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: setting up the punch line


< if anybody
can point out an artwork that functions without
context, explanation or
external reference>
Three different things!

(1)Context isn't decided or given by anyone -context
exists -historical, political, social, psychological,
artistic. Of course emphases may differ radically in
the explication or interpretation of context.

(2)External reference - OK many artworks clearly have
external reference -how it operates for a particular
artwok is a much more complex question. Even for
artworks that have no obvious external reference it is
often readable, surmisable by an appeal to the context
discussed above -an example would be the work of the
abstract expressionists.

(3)Explanation -now this is something else again and
we can divide it into two kinds -explanation by the
artist and explanation by others: critics, casual
viewers, journalists, sociologists of art, whatever.
Here explanation by the artist is at issue.
Technical explanations I personally have no problem
with -its a practical matter -sometimes you maybe need
to give people a clue, especially in interactive work
( but with generative type stuff personally I've
gritted my teeth and thought 'well if they want to
find it they will') but I guess if you do it you would
want to try and do it elegantly and in an integrated
way.
My big bugbear is the artist statement, the artist's
explanation of what their piece is about. I've never
read one that I've found anything but massively
irritating - I think that artists are usually the last
people who should explicate their work, unless it is
so dully one dimensional and tedious ( and God knows
there's enough of that about) that it is susceptible
to a linear straightforward and unambiguous statement
of its meaning and intentions.
michael

=====
*** You are asked for a jusqu'a car-portrait 'imagining ourselves' contribution.
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/self_portraits/contribute.html
It black and an empty image must be qu'avec null, he n'est become the methods and material digitali/fotografici, (acceptable = ink, matita, coal, varnish; acceptable not = computer the photography &c)
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/self_portraits/index.html ***

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