Michael Szpakowski
Since the beginning
Works in Harlow United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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DISCUSSION

Re: "Protocol"--Excerpt from Chapter 6 "Tactial Media"


< You are to insignificant to chalenge MANIK.
No more free lessons.>
OK.

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DISCUSSION

Re: "Protocol"--Excerpt from Chapter 6 "Tactial Media"


OK - an analogy.
Israel can only continue to exist because of US
subsidy and arms. It has oppressed and continues to
oppress the Palestinians in the most vile way.
Does this mean that anti semitism is no longer a
problem or that we should overlook it on similar
grounds to your argument about Kossovan Albanians?
Does this mean that I don't protest when Jewish graves
are desecrated or someone wants to hold a meeting
denying the Holocaust? Of course not, because I
distinguish (and it essential so to do) between the
political formation Zionism & the Zionist State on the
one hand, and individual Jewish people -they are not
one and the same thing however much the Zionist
apologists would have us believe it to be so.
The Kossovan Albanians are, as you say, in the
unfortunate position of having some deeply unpleasant
"friends" who would use them as a stick to beat the
Serbs and to extend US and UK hegemony.
Does this mean they were not formerly oppressed and
subject to pogrom and ethnic cleansing? Of course not.
Does this mean we should ignore it when someone writes
crass, racist rubbish about them? Of course not.
Its true that the intellectuals you mention have taken
an honourable stand against US/UK imperialism and I
would pretty much share their position, but I
challenge you to find *anything* in their writings or
speeches which writes off the Kossovan Albanians *as a
race* which is what you do .
michael

--- manik <manik@ptt.yu> wrote:
> >( and this is the most generous reading I can make
> >-personally I don't think that having large
> families
> >and following Islam are signs of degeneracy)
> >As such it plays straight into the hands of racists
> >and chauvinists everywhere.
> >michael
> MANIK never mention degeneracy.You don't have to
> read generous,read correct.
> We've never suggest,we deal with well known facts.
> You protect overprotected Shiptars.They are
> protected from all sides:U.S.A
> administration ,their well paid congressman in all
> Parliaments,United
> Europe,George Soros lobby,republican
> government,conservative,laburists and
> all democratic governments,all free and open mind
> media,bunch of
> non-government organization,merchant interest,giant
> intellectuals except
> few:Noam Chomsky,Peter Handke,Harold Pinter ...
> Who will protect individuals without any of those
> protections?
> MANIK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Szpakowski" <szpako@yahoo.com>
> To: "manik" <manik@ptt.yu>; <list@rhizome.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:57 PM
> Subject: Re: RHIZOME\_RAW: "Protocol"--Excerpt from
> Chapter 6 "Tactial Media"
>
>
> > < You are very naive.>
> > I don't think so.
> > I'm well aware for example that the largest single
> > incident of ethnic cleansing in former Yugoslavia
> was
> > carried out with the acquiescence of the US
> government
> > against the 150,000 Krajina Serbs.
> > I'm well aware too that the "humanitarian"
> > intervention by US/UK under the guise of NATO has
> > created a disaster in Kossovo, with ethnic
> cleansing
> > against both Serbs and also the Gypsy population.
> > Furthermore I absolutely reject the racist
> > demonisation of Serbs as bloodthirsty monsters.
> > The behaviour of the leadership of the Kossovan
> > Albanians is a salutory lesson in why you should
> not
> > hitch your hopes for national liberation to US/UK
> > imperialism.
> > Nevertheless the crux is *precisely* that it is
> > necessary to distinguish between leadership and
> people
> > as a whole.
> > Your post fails to do this & implies that the
> > characteristics of the Kossovan leadership are
> shared
> > and necessarily arise from the people they purport
> to
> > represent.
> > ( and this is the most generous reading I can make
> > -personally I don't think that having large
> families
> > and following Islam are signs of degeneracy)
> > As such it plays straight into the hands of
> racists
> > and chauvinists everywhere.
> > michael
> >
> >
> >
> > --- manik <manik@ptt.yu> wrote:
> > > Hi Michael,
> > > You are very naive.
> > > MANIK
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Michael Szpakowski" <szpako@yahoo.com>
> > > To: "manik" <manik@ptt.yu>; <list@rhizome.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:28 AM
> > > Subject: Re: RHIZOME\_RAW: "Protocol"--Excerpt
> from
> > > Chapter 6 "Tactial Media"
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Manik
> > > > I marched against the US/UK aggression in
> former
> > > > Yugoslavia and I spoke and organised against
> it
> > > too.
> > > > You're undoubtedly right to assert that the
> oil
> > > route
> > > > had more to do with it than any "humanitarian"
> > > > concern,
> > > > though I'm not convinced that you need Alex's
> text
> > > to
> > > > support that case.
> > > > What I'm certain of is that I find it
> > > disconcerting &
> > > > depressing to see people whose work I admire
> use
> > > the
> > > > language of the chauvinist and racist in
> talking
> > > about
> > > > an entire people ( see extract below)
> > > > "they breed too much , they're criminals and
> they
> > > have
> > > > strange ideas" is the refrain of every bar
> stool
> > > > racist the world over as well as the official
> > > > discourse of, say, the protestant majority in
> the
> > > Six
> > > > Counties of Ireland , or the Israeli
> government,
> > > or
> > > > David Blunkett on asylum seekers, or the late
> > > > unlamented South African Apartheid regime.
> > > > michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> > > > < 4./Albanians from Kosovo so called
Shiptar's
> > > still
> > > > live in tribal
> > > > organization.
> > > > 5./They separatism is based on unusual huge
> > > > natality(duty of every Shiptar
> > > > woman is to birth at list 9 to 10
> > > > children).Including high mortality because
> > > > of primitive environment average community
> lie in
> > > > houses behind high
> > > > walls,and it's contended often with more than
> 40
> > > > people.
> > > > 6./In former Yugoslavia they refused to use
> > > > opportunity which include scull
> > > > on they own language,and University.Instead
> they
> > > > invite professors from
> > > > Albania(another country).
> > > > 14./Woman trafficking,drug's,weapon market
> are
> > > legal
> > > > in Kosovo.
> > > > 15./Very well organized(is almost impossible
> to
> > > > infiltrate in
> > > > their"families"),with long criminal
> > > > experience,indoctrinate with Islamic
> > > > ideology,Shiptars are potential terrorist
> threat
> > > for
> > > > area,and after
> > > > independence for America too.>

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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > +
> > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> > > open to non-members
> > > +
> > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set
> > > out in the
> > > Membership Agreement available online at
> > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
> >
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> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
>
=== message truncated ===

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DISCUSSION

Re: "Protocol"--Excerpt from Chapter 6 "Tactial Media"


< You are very naive.>
I don't think so.
I'm well aware for example that the largest single
incident of ethnic cleansing in former Yugoslavia was
carried out with the acquiescence of the US government
against the 150,000 Krajina Serbs.
I'm well aware too that the "humanitarian"
intervention by US/UK under the guise of NATO has
created a disaster in Kossovo, with ethnic cleansing
against both Serbs and also the Gypsy population.
Furthermore I absolutely reject the racist
demonisation of Serbs as bloodthirsty monsters.
The behaviour of the leadership of the Kossovan
Albanians is a salutory lesson in why you should not
hitch your hopes for national liberation to US/UK
imperialism.
Nevertheless the crux is *precisely* that it is
necessary to distinguish between leadership and people
as a whole.
Your post fails to do this & implies that the
characteristics of the Kossovan leadership are shared
and necessarily arise from the people they purport to
represent.
( and this is the most generous reading I can make
-personally I don't think that having large families
and following Islam are signs of degeneracy)
As such it plays straight into the hands of racists
and chauvinists everywhere.
michael

--- manik <manik@ptt.yu> wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> You are very naive.
> MANIK
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Szpakowski" <szpako@yahoo.com>
> To: "manik" <manik@ptt.yu>; <list@rhizome.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:28 AM
> Subject: Re: RHIZOME\_RAW: "Protocol"--Excerpt from
> Chapter 6 "Tactial Media"
>
>
> > Hi Manik
> > I marched against the US/UK aggression in former
> > Yugoslavia and I spoke and organised against it
> too.
> > You're undoubtedly right to assert that the oil
> route
> > had more to do with it than any "humanitarian"
> > concern,
> > though I'm not convinced that you need Alex's text
> to
> > support that case.
> > What I'm certain of is that I find it
> disconcerting &
> > depressing to see people whose work I admire use
> the
> > language of the chauvinist and racist in talking
> about
> > an entire people ( see extract below)
> > "they breed too much , they're criminals and they
> have
> > strange ideas" is the refrain of every bar stool
> > racist the world over as well as the official
> > discourse of, say, the protestant majority in the
> Six
> > Counties of Ireland , or the Israeli government,
> or
> > David Blunkett on asylum seekers, or the late
> > unlamented South African Apartheid regime.
> > michael
> >
> >
> > < 4./Albanians from Kosovo so called Shiptar's
> still
> > live in tribal
> > organization.
> > 5./They separatism is based on unusual huge
> > natality(duty of every Shiptar
> > woman is to birth at list 9 to 10
> > children).Including high mortality because
> > of primitive environment average community lie in
> > houses behind high
> > walls,and it's contended often with more than 40
> > people.
> > 6./In former Yugoslavia they refused to use
> > opportunity which include scull
> > on they own language,and University.Instead they
> > invite professors from
> > Albania(another country).
> > 14./Woman trafficking,drug's,weapon market are
> legal
> > in Kosovo.
> > 15./Very well organized(is almost impossible to
> > infiltrate in
> > their"families"),with long criminal
> > experience,indoctrinate with Islamic
> > ideology,Shiptars are potential terrorist threat
> for
> > area,and after
> > independence for America too.>
> >
> > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for
> faster
> > http://search.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

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DISCUSSION

Re: "Protocol"--Excerpt from Chapter 6 "Tactial Media"


Hi Manik
I marched against the US/UK aggression in former
Yugoslavia and I spoke and organised against it too.
You're undoubtedly right to assert that the oil route
had more to do with it than any "humanitarian"
concern,
though I'm not convinced that you need Alex's text to
support that case.
What I'm certain of is that I find it disconcerting &
depressing to see people whose work I admire use the
language of the chauvinist and racist in talking about
an entire people ( see extract below)
"they breed too much , they're criminals and they have
strange ideas" is the refrain of every bar stool
racist the world over as well as the official
discourse of, say, the protestant majority in the Six
Counties of Ireland , or the Israeli government, or
David Blunkett on asylum seekers, or the late
unlamented South African Apartheid regime.
michael

< 4./Albanians from Kosovo so called Shiptar's still
live in tribal
organization.
5./They separatism is based on unusual huge
natality(duty of every Shiptar
woman is to birth at list 9 to 10
children).Including high mortality because
of primitive environment average community lie in
houses behind high
walls,and it's contended often with more than 40
people.
6./In former Yugoslavia they refused to use
opportunity which include scull
on they own language,and University.Instead they
invite professors from
Albania(another country).
14./Woman trafficking,drug's,weapon market are legal
in Kosovo.
15./Very well organized(is almost impossible to
infiltrate in
their"families"),with long criminal
experience,indoctrinate with Islamic
ideology,Shiptars are potential terrorist threat for
area,and after
independence for America too.>

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DISCUSSION

A Walk in the Buda Hills with the Ghost of Attila Jozsef


a small new piece, requires sound:

http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/buda/ghost.html

best
michael

=====
*** QuickTime large QuickTime NUMBER, it is small, office being nearly office OF the office OF the COMMANDS office OF the film or many nearly time the small order where that, that is the office OF the office OF the COMMANDS QuickTime when into the film, is given, it gives the office OF the
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/Some_QuickTime_Movies
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/ ***

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