Michael Szpakowski
Since the beginning
Works in Harlow United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

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DISCUSSION

Re: Digital Culture Evening: Workshop with Cory Arcangel at New Museum


< games are now a
full-fledged part of adult life, situated as a
shared public culture not unlike television. >
Is this true? I don't say it in a confrontational
spirit -I'm just curious. I actually don't know
anybody (even my kids, late twenties, mid twenties and
a teen) with any sustained & declared interest in
games - though this could well be an index of my
isolation!
michael

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http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/Some_QuickTime_Movies
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DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PS


<Games educate. Games reflect cultural assumptions.
Games affect
perceptions. Games set policies. Games peddle
unreality and offer
vicarious catahrsis. Games distract. Games have
content, history and
aesthetics. >
Some of these statements seem to me to be
uncontroversial truisms , other parts the purest
hyperbole.
"games set policies?" really? -where? -and I don't
just mean metaphorically in the "Bush is an idiot"
sense we can all cheerfully sign up to.
"games affect perceptions" -in any meaningful and
substantive sense? - where's the research ? the onus
is upon you to show it to be so.
"games have aesthetics" -perhaps in the same way that
ads do, but a less fevered way of describing it might
be to talk about design principles or themes.

<Frankly the average interactive piece
is a minigame
without the replay value.>
The average game is an interactive art work without
any real art, driven pretty much solely by commerce.
Of course this doesn't mean we can't learn from it ,
but it's very easy to overstate the case -there's
something to be learnt from most things.
< do remember that just because I don't find something
interesting
doesn't mean nobody else does or that it isn't
culturally pertinent.>
Completely accepted - *if* I was writing a thesis
rather than attempting to make art.
It's an earnest and paralysing fallacy that because
something is an "issue" we both can and should make
art from it.
I just wish I had a quid for every call to make art
based on games I've seen in the last year - testament,
in my view, not to the pressing urgency of the issue
of games but the all too predictable curatorial
paralysis and lack of imagination in the face of what
is perceived to be fashionable, what is perceived to
be the current thing.
michael

>
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DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PS


<We live in a games culture, this
needs both barrels
rather than eyes rolling.>

My difficulty ,and I completely accept it might be
something missing in me, is that games don't make my
eyes roll but close... and that the games based art
work or exhibition as an idea just seems terribly
tired too.
If they are so hegemonic and I don't accept they are,
maybe we need an antidote not an imitation or hommage.
michael
--- Rob Myers <robmyers@mac.com> wrote:
> On 15 Dec 2003, at 09:44, Patrick Simons wrote:
>
> > A limit of ellipses?
> >
> > Surely not, solar, lunar, total...
>
> ROFL
>
> > I believe it was Lucio Fontana with the scissors
> in the beaubourg!
>
> Well we need to check the envelope now to make
> sure...
>
> > How about "Triumphalism, the game that brings
> Mousetrap, Campaign and
> > Twister together in one decontextualised riot of
> fun for all the
> > world"?
>
> Heh. Howabout a yBA "Top Trumps" set? Pretend to be
> Serota. Bagsy White
> Cube...
>
> > The initial point I was making was something about
> the restrictive
> > nature of the commission call, which seems to me
> can only lead to work
> > which
> > is a game,
> > subverts a game,
> > adolescent (whoops, could be misinterpreted) woody
> allenisms about
> > games+life.
>
> I understand this point and I take it seriously but
> I've spent some
> years playing, researching, and writing games (I
> worked for Douglas
> Adams' games company for a while as a Mac
> programmer) and I disagree.
> Games inform the ruling classes and distract the
> working classes to a
> disturbing degree. Vietnam dragged on in part based
> on ill-concievd
> simulations*. Nuclear war strategy was based on the
> same. You just know
> the current western adventures in the oilfields and
> pipeline routes of
> the middle east have the backing of some GIGO
> production system on a
> CRAY somewhere. Gangs and soldiers think they're
> playing "America's
> Army". And people who won't linger on the street go
> home to play Quake
> or watch "Pop Idol", or block out the Tube with a
> "Gameboy".
>
> > I suppose I just want more, something less like a
> theme and more like
> > a concept, less like a hook and more like a point
> of inspiration,...
>
> Games are a way of structuring things, in many ways
> they are the
> opposite of narrative (before rather than after the
> fact, see Greg
> Kostikyan's essay). We live in a games culture, this
> needs both barrels
> rather than eyes rolling.
>
> - Rob.
>
> *"War Gaming", Andrew Wilson, pelican books (US
> edition had different
> title IIRC)
>
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140212078/qid71521207/
>
> sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_1_3/202-1206957-7811035.
>
> +
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> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
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http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/Some_QuickTime_Movies
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DISCUSSION

new movie: fruit_machine


http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/Some_QuickTime_Movies/fruit_machine.mov

best
michael

=====
*** QuickTime large QuickTime NUMBER, it is small, office being nearly office OF the office OF the COMMANDS office OF the film or many nearly time the small order where that, that is the office OF the office OF the COMMANDS QuickTime when into the film, is given, it gives the office OF the
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/Some_QuickTime_Movies
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/ ***

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DISCUSSION

Re: Re: commissions voting process


Actually what might be really interesting and remove
it from the level of tokenism is if the *entire* jury
was elected by the paid up rhizome community.
( and perhaps if the subject of the commissions was
decided similarly too)
michael

--- Francis Hwang <francis@rhizome.org> wrote:
>
> On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 06:48 PM, ana
> boa-ventura wrote:
>
> > Francis,
> >
> > I want to compliment you on this document: it's
> excellent! I have only
> > one doubt.
> > When you say:
> >> For example, a proposal which receives 10 Yes
> votes will be ranked
> >> >at 100%, and a proposal that receives 15 Yes
> votes and 5 No votes
> >> >will be ranked at 75%.
> >
> > Does this mean that i can vote "yes" , "no" or
> express "no opinion" for
> > piece X? In which case it is the ratio of "yes"
> versus "no" for that
> > particular piece that counts? Hmmm. If this is so
> the only thing that i
> > thought we should be aware of - and may come up in
> the discussion - is
> > a bit like the unreliability of studies based on
> voluntary surveys.
> > You're only going to answer if you feel strongly
> about whatever is
> > covered there - if you loved it or hated it
> you'll answer . If
> > you're just ok with it you probably won't.
>
> I imagined that you could only vote "yes" or "no".
> You can't vote "no
> opinion", though you can simply choose not to vote
> on a particular
> proposal.
>
> It is true that this voting system will be weighted
> towards those who
> feel strongly about the process and various
> proposals. I think that's
> generally true of all voting systems, though. I
> wouldn't be surprised
> if the core group of voters is only about 100 or 200
> die-hards, though
> I'd love it if everybody voted. I'm only concerned
> if this would
> disadvantage individual pieces against others, but I
> have a hard time
> imagining how it would do that.
>
> I'm less concerned about the cases where each
> proposal gets, say, 100
> votes. The wierd cases will be if not a lot of
> people vote and a
> proposal gets just 1 vote. Then its score can only
> be 100% or 0%. Not
> sure how to counteract that effect, other than to
> try to design the
> interface in such a way that the proposal with the
> least votes pops up
> at the top of the list.
>
>
> > Doesn't this yes/no proportion have implications
> there? But then
> > again, is there a better alternative? I really
> don't know - just
> > wanted to alert y'all to possible consequences of:
> > 1- allowing people to choose the pieces they're
> saying somethig about
> > it (i'm sure it would be a nigthmare but maybe you
> could assign works
> > to people? guess the interface encouraging you to
> vote on the ones
> > that haven't voted yet could be the solution - and
> i'm curious about
> > it.:))
> > 2- having the ratio yes/no to influence the
> overall result as opposed
> > to yes only.
> >
> > All the best and kudos on the description of the
> voting process!
> >
> > Ana Boa-Ventura
>
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> -> post: list@rhizome.org
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> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

=====
*** QuickTime large QuickTime NUMBER, it is small, office being nearly office OF the office OF the COMMANDS office OF the film or many nearly time the small order where that, that is the office OF the office OF the COMMANDS QuickTime when into the film, is given, it gives the office OF the
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/Some_QuickTime_Movies
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/ ***

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