ARTBASE (1)
PORTFOLIO (3)
BIO
Marc Garrett is co-director and co-founder, with artist Ruth Catlow of the Internet arts collectives and communities – Furtherfield.org, Furthernoise.org, Netbehaviour.org, also co-founder and co-curator/director of the gallery space formerly known as 'HTTP Gallery' now called the Furtherfield Gallery in London (Finsbury Park), UK. Co-curating various contemporary Media Arts exhibitions, projects nationally and internationally. Co-editor of 'Artists Re:Thinking Games' with Ruth Catlow and Corrado Morgana 2010. Hosted Furtherfield's critically acclaimed weekly broadcast on UK's Resonance FM Radio, a series of hour long live interviews with people working at the edge of contemporary practices in art, technology & social change. Currently doing an Art history Phd at the University of London, Birkbeck College.
Net artist, media artist, curator, writer, street artist, activist, educationalist and musician. Emerging in the late 80′s from the streets exploring creativity via agit-art tactics. Using unofficial, experimental platforms such as the streets, pirate radio such as the locally popular ‘Savage Yet Tender’ alternative broadcasting 1980′s group, net broadcasts, BBS systems, performance, intervention, events, pamphlets, warehouses and gallery spaces. In the early nineties, was co-sysop (systems operator) with Heath Bunting on Cybercafe BBS with Irational.org.
Our mission is to co-create extraordinary art that connects with contemporary audiences providing innovative, engaging and inclusive digital and physical spaces for appreciating and participating in practices in art, technology and social change. As well as finding alternative ways around already dominating hegemonies, thus claiming for ourselves and our peer networks a culturally aware and critical dialogue beyond traditional hierarchical behaviours. Influenced by situationist theory, fluxus, free and open source culture, and processes of self-education and peer learning, in an art, activist and community context.
Net artist, media artist, curator, writer, street artist, activist, educationalist and musician. Emerging in the late 80′s from the streets exploring creativity via agit-art tactics. Using unofficial, experimental platforms such as the streets, pirate radio such as the locally popular ‘Savage Yet Tender’ alternative broadcasting 1980′s group, net broadcasts, BBS systems, performance, intervention, events, pamphlets, warehouses and gallery spaces. In the early nineties, was co-sysop (systems operator) with Heath Bunting on Cybercafe BBS with Irational.org.
Our mission is to co-create extraordinary art that connects with contemporary audiences providing innovative, engaging and inclusive digital and physical spaces for appreciating and participating in practices in art, technology and social change. As well as finding alternative ways around already dominating hegemonies, thus claiming for ourselves and our peer networks a culturally aware and critical dialogue beyond traditional hierarchical behaviours. Influenced by situationist theory, fluxus, free and open source culture, and processes of self-education and peer learning, in an art, activist and community context.
- OH, AMERICA -
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Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
with conquering limbs astride from land to land;
there at those sea-washed sunset gates, stands
a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
is imprisoned lightning,
and her name, Liberty, Mother of Exiles.
Penny Rimbaud...
http://www.fuzzynet.co.uk/america.shtml
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<DIV>- OH, AMERICA - <BR><BR>Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, <BR>w=
ith
conquering limbs astride from land to land;<BR>there at those sea-washed su=
nset
gates, stands<BR>a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame<BR>is imprisoned=
lightning,<BR>and her name, Liberty, Mother of Exiles.<BR><BR>Penny
Rimbaud...<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.fuzzynet.co.uk/america.shtml">http://www.fuzzynet.co.uk/=
america.shtml</A></DIV>
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Blank- OH, AMERICA -
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
with conquering limbs astride from land to land;
there at those sea-washed sunset gates, stands
a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
is imprisoned lightning,
and her name, Liberty, Mother of Exiles.
Penny Rimbaud...
http://www.fuzzynet.co.uk/america.shtml
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<DIV>- OH, AMERICA - <BR><BR>Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, <BR>w=
ith
conquering limbs astride from land to land;<BR>there at those sea-washed su=
nset
gates, stands<BR>a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame<BR>is imprisoned=
lightning,<BR>and her name, Liberty, Mother of Exiles.<BR><BR>Penny
Rimbaud...<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.fuzzynet.co.uk/america.shtml">http://www.fuzzynet.co.uk/=
america.shtml</A></DIV>
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greetingz
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BlankRevelations & greetings to all on rhizome (except to death & 'its' wea=
k followers).
marc
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<DIV>Revelations & greetings to all on rhizome (except to death & '=
its'
weak followers).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>marc</DIV>
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BlankRevelations & greetings to all on rhizome (except to death & 'its' wea=
k followers).
marc
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<DIV>Revelations & greetings to all on rhizome (except to death & '=
its'
weak followers).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>marc</DIV>
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Re: Re: An editing job for the ages
Hi Joseph,
best sense i've heard on here for a while...
(Well, it is pretty easy to go around pointing out what is wrong with
someone
else's position. However, it is much more constructive to understand the
objectives and aims of all participants and then go about building a
mutually
beneficial outcome)
I am not going to respond to all of Wally's mails cuz they distract me from
what I am best at, creativity & collaboration/imagination/fluidity via
subjective reason - non reason...
As far as I know, no one has seen Wally's creative output, we do not know if
he is dealing with contemporary issues in his work as well as contempoary
political issues - this might give us all an insight informing us all where
he coming from as an artist.
Everyone knows where I am coming from, and also they know that I am willing
to admit personal wrongs when challenged in a way that is revelatory; but
when one is thrown into a storm of flames, that do not actually mutually
explore the issues already mentioned, and attacked viciously, one just gets
fed up with it all. Which, I suspect is the whole point of it all.
So I will continue to place my mails & art on the list, for this is my
freedom (at the moment). If Anyone wishes to challenge my view around
politics, they are welcome to; but please do not be so thuggish; it just
makes things worse. Be creative with it, like Andrej himself was, even he
was plunged upon (uncreatively I might add), with a barrage of offensive
shouts by a certain individual (I wonder who that was erm).
People whom hide are not to be trusted...or believed.
marc
> Quoting Wally Keeler <poetburo@sympatico.ca>:
>
> > Absolutely NOT. This is simply imaginary on your part. I certainly
respond
> > to viewpoints, and my comments are critical of those particular
viewpoints.
> > I also consider it constructive to point out that the emporer has no
> > clothes. That includes the dissident pointing out that Mugabe has no
> > clothes, that Bush has his fly open, that peace activist hurt their own
> > cause. That i s constructive.
>
> Well, it is pretty easy to go around pointing out what is wrong with
someone
> else's position. However, it is much more constructive to understand the
> objectives and aims of all participants and then go about building a
mutually
> beneficial outcome.
>
>
> joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
> frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
>
> go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
> call me 646 279 2309
>
> SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER CUPCAKEKALEIDOSCOPE - send email to
> CupcakeKleidoscope-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
best sense i've heard on here for a while...
(Well, it is pretty easy to go around pointing out what is wrong with
someone
else's position. However, it is much more constructive to understand the
objectives and aims of all participants and then go about building a
mutually
beneficial outcome)
I am not going to respond to all of Wally's mails cuz they distract me from
what I am best at, creativity & collaboration/imagination/fluidity via
subjective reason - non reason...
As far as I know, no one has seen Wally's creative output, we do not know if
he is dealing with contemporary issues in his work as well as contempoary
political issues - this might give us all an insight informing us all where
he coming from as an artist.
Everyone knows where I am coming from, and also they know that I am willing
to admit personal wrongs when challenged in a way that is revelatory; but
when one is thrown into a storm of flames, that do not actually mutually
explore the issues already mentioned, and attacked viciously, one just gets
fed up with it all. Which, I suspect is the whole point of it all.
So I will continue to place my mails & art on the list, for this is my
freedom (at the moment). If Anyone wishes to challenge my view around
politics, they are welcome to; but please do not be so thuggish; it just
makes things worse. Be creative with it, like Andrej himself was, even he
was plunged upon (uncreatively I might add), with a barrage of offensive
shouts by a certain individual (I wonder who that was erm).
People whom hide are not to be trusted...or believed.
marc
> Quoting Wally Keeler <poetburo@sympatico.ca>:
>
> > Absolutely NOT. This is simply imaginary on your part. I certainly
respond
> > to viewpoints, and my comments are critical of those particular
viewpoints.
> > I also consider it constructive to point out that the emporer has no
> > clothes. That includes the dissident pointing out that Mugabe has no
> > clothes, that Bush has his fly open, that peace activist hurt their own
> > cause. That i s constructive.
>
> Well, it is pretty easy to go around pointing out what is wrong with
someone
> else's position. However, it is much more constructive to understand the
> objectives and aims of all participants and then go about building a
mutually
> beneficial outcome.
>
>
> joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
> frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
>
> go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
> call me 646 279 2309
>
> SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER CUPCAKEKALEIDOSCOPE - send email to
> CupcakeKleidoscope-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
bombgazm...
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ns in the guise of peacekeeping...
http://www.furtherfield.org/mgarrett/bombgazm/docs/bombgazm1.htm
marc
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<DIV>A snippet from a new site I am building against the killing of civilia=
ns in
the guise of peacekeeping...<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.furtherfield.org/mgarrett/bombgazm/docs/bombgazm1.htm">h=
ttp://www.furtherfield.org/mgarrett/bombgazm/docs/bombgazm1.htm</A><BR><BR>=
<BR>marc</DIV>
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BlankA snippet from a new site I am building against the killing of civilia=
ns in the guise of peacekeeping...
http://www.furtherfield.org/mgarrett/bombgazm/docs/bombgazm1.htm
marc
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<BODY id=ridBody bgColor=#ffffff
background=cid:005701c2a916$e985cd30$0100a8c0@FURTHERFIELD>
<DIV>A snippet from a new site I am building against the killing of civilia=
ns in
the guise of peacekeeping...<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.furtherfield.org/mgarrett/bombgazm/docs/bombgazm1.htm">h=
ttp://www.furtherfield.org/mgarrett/bombgazm/docs/bombgazm1.htm</A><BR><BR>=
<BR>marc</DIV>
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Re: Re: An editing job for the ages
It's soulless and you know it...
tiz true - excitement happens - but death is a good reason for such emotion,
don't you think?
> I have absolutely no disagreement that more information should be
available
> to the US public. I would go further. I would ensure that it should be
> available to the entire public of Earth, in all major languages, and also
> include the names and addresses of non-Western collaborators as well.
> Likewise, how much information does everyone have concerning the
information
-I agree...
Although, I am offended by you calling me shallow - I can forgive quicker
than most...you obviously do not know me that well.
marc
> > while marc's original post was a little on the excited side (I had read
> this
> > information before), his point is valid that the US government/press
> either
> > through plan or accident (what sells?) edit much information that should
> be
> > available to the US public.
>
> I have absolutely no disagreement that more information should be
available
> to the US public. I would go further. I would ensure that it should be
> available to the entire public of Earth, in all major languages, and also
> include the names and addresses of non-Western collaborators as well.
> Likewise, how much information does everyone have concerning the
information
> published in the press of the Middle East on a daily b asis, what is
taught
> in the schools there. During the 1980's I used to travel in and out of the
> Warsaw Pact countries, to deliver and receive information from peace
> activists who suffered oppression under their respective communist
> dictatorshits far in excess of what Western peace activists whine about
> concerning themselves in the West. The saddest p art was that there should
h
> ave been a great alliance between these two groups of peace activists, but
> there wasn't. The Western peace activists, with a proportionally small
> exception, couldn;t bring themselves to be overtly critical of the
communist
> dictatorshits for fear of appearing to take sides. Simply dumb.
>
> Incidently, it appears that I am the ONLY dissident voice in this forum on
> this topic, and if there is any desire to quash opposing viewpoints in
this
> forum. it is not cominmg from me.
>
> And marc's original post was more than a little excited.
>
> > It seems convenient that the info lost often would
> > be unattractive to the Bush agenda. I sit here hearing the same
argument
> on
> > NPR as I write.
> >
> > Wally, while you seem sincere in your passion, you also seem more
> determined to
> > quash opposing viewpoints
>
> Absolutely NOT. This is simply imaginary on your part. I certainly respond
> to viewpoints, and my comments are critical of those particular
viewpoints.
> I also consider it constructive to point out that the emporer has no
> clothes. That includes the dissident pointing out that Mugabe has no
> clothes, that Bush has his fly open, that peace activist hurt their own
> cause. That i s constructive.
>
> > than in constructive dialog. Multiple worldviews are
> > GOOD and impossible to quash without a lot of death happening.
> >
> >
> > joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
> > frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
> >
> > go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
> > call me 646 279 2309
> >
> > SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER CUPCAKEKALEIDOSCOPE - send email to
> > CupcakeKleidoscope-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting Wally Keeler <poetburo@sympatico.ca>:
> >
> > > Blank
> > > From: marc.garrett
> > >
> > > Thanks for enlarging the text (extra big) to the scale equivalent of
> trying
> > > to shout genuine dissent down - you can feel proud.
> > > So I see you enlarged your own. Get a clue -- I enlarged it just to
> > > differentiate my response from yours. It is a crock assumption to
> assert
> > > that the motivation was to "shout genuine dissent down." You're still
> whining
> > > aren't you?
> > >
> > > Do you really think that war is just about the function of killing?
> > >
> > > Did I really think that? Get a grip. I made no such assertion. You
> feed on
> > > assumptions and presumptions -- and you're wrong for the most part.
You
> are
> > > not a very good master of creating strawmen.
> > >
> > > No, other systems have to be put in place to create the right
climate
> for
> > > physical action, an invasion of another culture. You must of realized
> that,
> > > that process started before 9-11 surely. I think you do, I also think
> that
> > > you do not care (personally) ...if you did, compassion would of won
you
> over.
> > > There is something that you are not being honest about.
> > >
> > > Prove it -- or remove your peurile kangeroo kourt to a more
> appropoetic
> > > forum: listserv; fiction not facts.
> > >
> > > stopping people declaring their views will not create a better
planet
> to
> > > live on, stopping killing people might do. You say it is simplistic,
> > >
> > > I didn't say it at all. I described your initial missive as a
> breathless
> > > bloated clone of National Inquirer tabloidism. But then again,
National
> > > Inquiorer style is to make up assertions that have no basis in fact --
> just
> > > as y ou are doing in this exchange.
> > >
> > > you are very wrong. It is obvious, not simplistic (wrong words); I
am
> > > interested in the governments of this shaky, muddy ball called earth,
to
> do
> > > something honorable for a change. And stop funding despots that come
> back to
> > > haunt them and the civilians of this world (don't you?), now that is
> > > simplistic, basic in fact, even stupid, sounds screwy to me, and to a
> lot
> > > other people as well. Contrary to what the American government & the
> Uk's are
> > > government shoving down everyone's throat.
> > > There's other government's also shoving shit down throats -- you
might
> > > benefit by spreading your cause instead of the dime-a-dozen US-UK
makes
> all
> > > other nations' governments bad. Get real.
> > >
> > > It's soulless and you know it...
> > >
> > > Much like your breathless bloated National Inquirer-like report.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Wally,
> > > Are you glad that there is a war happening?
> > >
> > > A ludicrous question, all too typical of shallowness. The answer
> is NO,
> > > I am not glad about it. In any event, I am unaware that it is
happening.
> When
> > > did it start? I just checked the news, and as far as I can make out,
it
> is
> > > still in the "rattling sabres" stage.
> > >
> > > Cuz death is what's going to happen, justify that...
> > >
> > > The matter was not about justifying death. (And just for the
> record --
> > > I am against capital punishment) The matter was your bloated and
> breathless
> > > propaganda. You might get better results for your concerns if you
> asserted
> > > your case without resorting to National Inquirer tabloid tactics.
> > >
> > >
> > > "An editing job for the ages..." What a fantastic bit of
> bloated
> > > hyperbole -- makes for great National Inquirer tabloid propaganda.
> > >
> > > And, wow, a historian friend who breathlessly claims it will
be
> > > published tomorrow -- but for those who can hardly wait, I reproduce
an
> AP
> > > report of December 18 last which reports the issue as a known story
> line.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: marc.garrett
> > > An editing job for the ages: corporations that aided the
> Iraqis
> > >
> > > As a professional editor, I was particularly curious about
the
> > > "editing" the administration was doing on the 12,000 page Iraqi report
> on
> > > their weapons of mass destruction. Rumors have been swirling. The
> Americans
> > > claim, of course, that they were vetting the report for WMD-making
> > > instructions before passing it on to the roiling mass of non-veto
> nations in
> > > the Security Council. Others have suggested that part of what was
being
> > > excised was a record of the corporations that once aided Iraq in
> achieving
> > > WMD capabilities.
> > > Now, a historian friend whom I trust has passed the
following
> > > message on to me:
> > >
> > >
> > > "To be reported in tomorrow's Die Tageszeitung (Berlin
> daily),
> > > here is a list of US and European corporations that allegedly supplied
> Iraq
> > > with nuclear, chemical, biological, and missile technology, prior to
> 1991.
> > > The list comes, it seems, from the original Iraqi report to the
Security
> > > Council.
> > >
> http://www.nationinstitute.org/tomdispatch/index.mhtml?pid#3
> > > Iraq Used Many Suppliers for Nuke Program
> > > By DAFNA LINZER Associated Press Writer
> > >
> > > UNITED NATIONS (AP) - Dozens of suppliers, most in Europe,
> the
> > > United States and Japan, provided the components and know-how Saddam
> Hussein
> > > needed to build an atomic bomb, according to Iraq's 1996 accounting of
> its
> > > nuclear program.
> > >
> > > The secret declaration, shown to The Associated Press, is
> virtually
> > > identical to the one submitted to U.N. inspectors on Dec. 7, according
> to
> > > U.N. officials. The reports have not been made public to prevent
nuclear
> > > know-how from falling into the wrong hands and also to protect the
names
> of
> > > companies that wittingly or unwittingly supplied Iraq with the means
to
> make
> > > nuclear weapons.
> > >
> > > U.N. officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said
the
> only
> > > difference between the two reports is that the latest has a 300-page
> section
> > > in Arabic on civilian nuclear programs and a slightly larger typeface
> that
> > > stretches it to 2,100 pages.
> > >
> > > That foreign companies helped Iraq has long been known, and
> some of
> > > them have been identified before, but the Iraqi accounting adds up to
> the
> > > most exhaustive list so far of companies involved.
> > >
> > > Iraq's report says the equipment was either sold or made by
> more
> > > than 30 German companies, 10 American companies, 11 British companies
> and a
> > > handful of Swiss, Japanese, Italian, French, Swedish and Brazilian
> firms. It
> > > says more than 30 countries supplied its nuclear program.
> > >
> > > It details nuclear efforts from the early 1980s to the Gulf
> War and
> > > contains diagrams, plans and test results in uranium enrichment,
> detonation,
> > > implosion testing and warhead construction.
> > >
> > > In one chapter, Iraq admits to having a pilot plan in
> September
> > > 1990 - one month after it invaded Kuwait - to increase the enrichment
of
> > > recovered uranium to 93 percent using centrifuges. The process is a
> > > complicated extraction and purification method that at full scale
> requires
> > > thousands of connected, high speed centrifuges.
> > >
> > > According to Iraq's report, the most detailed accounting of
> its
> > > former nuclear weapons program, it was also pursuing electromagnetic
> isotope
> > > separation as another method to enrich uranium, the key ingredient for
> an
> > > atomic explosion.
> > >
> > > The Iraqis had everything they needed to make nuclear
weapons,
> said
> > > Gary Milhollin, director of the Wisconsin Project, a Washington-based
> think
> > > tank on nuclear arms control. "They weren't missing any components or
> any
> > > knowledge," he said in a phone interview. "It was simply a matter of
> time."
> > >
> > > Milhollin said that had it not been for the 1991 Gulf War,
> Iraq
> > > would have had nuclear weapons by now, thanks to hundreds of suppliers
> who
> > > sold it an impressive array of equipment and expertise, often with
their
> > > government's approval and without being aware of the ultimate purpose.
> > > According to the Iraqi accounting, induction and electron beam
furnaces,
> > > which could be used in shaping uranium parts for an atomic bomb, came
> from
> > > Consarc Corp. of Rancocas, N.J. The company says the items were never
> > > delivered, however.
> > >
> > > Newport Corp. of Irvine, Calif., is listed as a supplier of
> optical
> > > fiber, a product with uses ranging from communications to medical
> equipment.
> > > But the company said it doesn't carry the model listed in the
> declaration.
> > >
> > > EEV Inc., based outside New York City, is listed as a
supplier
> of a
> > > thyratron, which the company says is used in medical imaging
equipment.
> It
> > > could not immediately verify the sale of the item.
> > >
> > > Motorola Inc., was listed as the seller of fast
> photodetectors, but
> > > company spokeswoman Jennifer Weyrauch said she found no record to
> support the
> > > claim. "A photodetector product is not part of Motorola's current
> portfolio."
> > >
> > > Most of the sales were legal and often made with the
knowledge
> of
> > > governments. In 1985-90, the U.S. Commerce Department, for example,
> licensed
> > > $1.5 billion in sales to Iraq of American technology with potential
> military
> > > uses. Iraq was then getting Western support for its war against Iran,
> which
> > > at the time was regarded as the main threat to stability in the
oil-rich
> Gulf
> > > region.
> > >
> > > But inspectors have discovered over the years that Iraq
often
> > > obtained supplies through middlemen or by lying to companies about the
> > > products' intended use.
> > >
> > > "It was useful in the past and it will be useful in the
future
> to
> > > go to companies and ask them questions," said Ewen Buchanan, spokesman
> for
> > > the U.N. weapons inspectors. While the Iraqi declaration provides a
lot
> of
> > > important information, the companies can often give inspectors insight
> into
> > > the real extent of Iraq's programs.
> > >
> > > Since the Gulf War, dozens of companies have either admitted
> to
> > > sales or were prosecuted in Europe for helping arm Iraq. Several no
> longer
> > > exist.
> > >
> > > "Revealing company names can discourage other companies from
> > > getting involved in deals with countries like Iraq where you don't
> really
> > > know the true end-use of your products," said David Albright, an
> American
> > > nuclear expert and a weapons inspector in 1996.
> > >
> > > According to Iraq's accounting, the real help came from
German
> > > experts and companies, in particular H&H Metallform, which sold the
> Iraqis
> > > old designs for centrifuges.
> > >
> > > Cooperation with H&H "was fruitful and it was called upon to
> render
> > > technical assistance and consultations in various activities," Iraq
> wrote in
> > > its nuclear declaration.
> > >
> > > In 1993, German courts found two H&H employees guilty of
> violating
> > > export law and sentenced them to over two years in prison for working
> with
> > > Iraq.
> > >
> > > German companies allegedly involved in other aspects of
Iraq's
> > > former weapons programs were named in a report Tuesday in the German
> daily
> > > Die Tag. The report also said companies such as DaimlerChrysler,
Siemens
> and
> > > Preussag sold items to Iraq which were diverted to the weapons
programs.
> > >
> > > The companies either declined to comment on the report, or
> said the
> > > deliveries had nothing to do with weapons, such as trucks or auto
parts
> from
> > > DaimlerChrysler.
> > >
> > > Some of Iraq's nuclear materials were destroyed during
> previous
> > > U.N. inspections, and Iraq is now banned from repurchasing much of it.
> But
> > > reconnaissance photos released by the Bush administration in October
> indicate
> > > the Iraqis have been rebuilding sites previously used for nuclear
> > > development. A recent U.S. intelligence report says Iraq may have
> nuclear
> > > weapons by 2010.
> > >
> > > Iraq acknowledged to inspectors last month that it was
> importing
> > > aluminum tubes which it said were for conventional weapons. The Bush
> > > administration said the tubes could be used to construct centrifuges
for
> > > uranium enrichment. But nuclear experts differ on whether the tubes
are
> of
> > > the proper size and material.
> > >
> > > What Iraq still has, however, is the expertise to start
again.
> > >
> > > Albright said the new evidence, coupled with long-running
> > > suspicions "that Iraq continued its nuclear weapons program even while
> > > inspectors were on the ground in the '90s," is what makes the latest
> > > declaration such a disappointment.
> > >
> > > Mohammed ElBaradei, chief of the International Atomic Energy
> > > Agency, said last week that the new submission amounts to a rehash of
> the
> > > 1996 report and covers "material we already had before."
> > >
> > > A line-by-line comparison of the table of contents from the
> 1996
> > > declaration and the 2002 version which was released last week by the
> United
> > > Nations finds subtle differences, mainly in translation, but not in
> > > substance.
> > >
> > > Inspectors were not surprised that Iraq resubmitted old
> reports
> > > since Baghdad claims it hasn't been working on weapons of mass
> destruction
> > > since the 1991 Gulf War. A submission of anything new would have
> contradicted
> > > that claim.
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > EDITOR'S NOTE: Associated Press National Writer Matt
Crenson,
> > > investigative researcher Randy Herschaft and Frankfurt correspondent
> Melissa
> > > Eddy contributed to this report.
> >
>
>
tiz true - excitement happens - but death is a good reason for such emotion,
don't you think?
> I have absolutely no disagreement that more information should be
available
> to the US public. I would go further. I would ensure that it should be
> available to the entire public of Earth, in all major languages, and also
> include the names and addresses of non-Western collaborators as well.
> Likewise, how much information does everyone have concerning the
information
-I agree...
Although, I am offended by you calling me shallow - I can forgive quicker
than most...you obviously do not know me that well.
marc
> > while marc's original post was a little on the excited side (I had read
> this
> > information before), his point is valid that the US government/press
> either
> > through plan or accident (what sells?) edit much information that should
> be
> > available to the US public.
>
> I have absolutely no disagreement that more information should be
available
> to the US public. I would go further. I would ensure that it should be
> available to the entire public of Earth, in all major languages, and also
> include the names and addresses of non-Western collaborators as well.
> Likewise, how much information does everyone have concerning the
information
> published in the press of the Middle East on a daily b asis, what is
taught
> in the schools there. During the 1980's I used to travel in and out of the
> Warsaw Pact countries, to deliver and receive information from peace
> activists who suffered oppression under their respective communist
> dictatorshits far in excess of what Western peace activists whine about
> concerning themselves in the West. The saddest p art was that there should
h
> ave been a great alliance between these two groups of peace activists, but
> there wasn't. The Western peace activists, with a proportionally small
> exception, couldn;t bring themselves to be overtly critical of the
communist
> dictatorshits for fear of appearing to take sides. Simply dumb.
>
> Incidently, it appears that I am the ONLY dissident voice in this forum on
> this topic, and if there is any desire to quash opposing viewpoints in
this
> forum. it is not cominmg from me.
>
> And marc's original post was more than a little excited.
>
> > It seems convenient that the info lost often would
> > be unattractive to the Bush agenda. I sit here hearing the same
argument
> on
> > NPR as I write.
> >
> > Wally, while you seem sincere in your passion, you also seem more
> determined to
> > quash opposing viewpoints
>
> Absolutely NOT. This is simply imaginary on your part. I certainly respond
> to viewpoints, and my comments are critical of those particular
viewpoints.
> I also consider it constructive to point out that the emporer has no
> clothes. That includes the dissident pointing out that Mugabe has no
> clothes, that Bush has his fly open, that peace activist hurt their own
> cause. That i s constructive.
>
> > than in constructive dialog. Multiple worldviews are
> > GOOD and impossible to quash without a lot of death happening.
> >
> >
> > joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
> > frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
> >
> > go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
> > call me 646 279 2309
> >
> > SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER CUPCAKEKALEIDOSCOPE - send email to
> > CupcakeKleidoscope-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting Wally Keeler <poetburo@sympatico.ca>:
> >
> > > Blank
> > > From: marc.garrett
> > >
> > > Thanks for enlarging the text (extra big) to the scale equivalent of
> trying
> > > to shout genuine dissent down - you can feel proud.
> > > So I see you enlarged your own. Get a clue -- I enlarged it just to
> > > differentiate my response from yours. It is a crock assumption to
> assert
> > > that the motivation was to "shout genuine dissent down." You're still
> whining
> > > aren't you?
> > >
> > > Do you really think that war is just about the function of killing?
> > >
> > > Did I really think that? Get a grip. I made no such assertion. You
> feed on
> > > assumptions and presumptions -- and you're wrong for the most part.
You
> are
> > > not a very good master of creating strawmen.
> > >
> > > No, other systems have to be put in place to create the right
climate
> for
> > > physical action, an invasion of another culture. You must of realized
> that,
> > > that process started before 9-11 surely. I think you do, I also think
> that
> > > you do not care (personally) ...if you did, compassion would of won
you
> over.
> > > There is something that you are not being honest about.
> > >
> > > Prove it -- or remove your peurile kangeroo kourt to a more
> appropoetic
> > > forum: listserv; fiction not facts.
> > >
> > > stopping people declaring their views will not create a better
planet
> to
> > > live on, stopping killing people might do. You say it is simplistic,
> > >
> > > I didn't say it at all. I described your initial missive as a
> breathless
> > > bloated clone of National Inquirer tabloidism. But then again,
National
> > > Inquiorer style is to make up assertions that have no basis in fact --
> just
> > > as y ou are doing in this exchange.
> > >
> > > you are very wrong. It is obvious, not simplistic (wrong words); I
am
> > > interested in the governments of this shaky, muddy ball called earth,
to
> do
> > > something honorable for a change. And stop funding despots that come
> back to
> > > haunt them and the civilians of this world (don't you?), now that is
> > > simplistic, basic in fact, even stupid, sounds screwy to me, and to a
> lot
> > > other people as well. Contrary to what the American government & the
> Uk's are
> > > government shoving down everyone's throat.
> > > There's other government's also shoving shit down throats -- you
might
> > > benefit by spreading your cause instead of the dime-a-dozen US-UK
makes
> all
> > > other nations' governments bad. Get real.
> > >
> > > It's soulless and you know it...
> > >
> > > Much like your breathless bloated National Inquirer-like report.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Wally,
> > > Are you glad that there is a war happening?
> > >
> > > A ludicrous question, all too typical of shallowness. The answer
> is NO,
> > > I am not glad about it. In any event, I am unaware that it is
happening.
> When
> > > did it start? I just checked the news, and as far as I can make out,
it
> is
> > > still in the "rattling sabres" stage.
> > >
> > > Cuz death is what's going to happen, justify that...
> > >
> > > The matter was not about justifying death. (And just for the
> record --
> > > I am against capital punishment) The matter was your bloated and
> breathless
> > > propaganda. You might get better results for your concerns if you
> asserted
> > > your case without resorting to National Inquirer tabloid tactics.
> > >
> > >
> > > "An editing job for the ages..." What a fantastic bit of
> bloated
> > > hyperbole -- makes for great National Inquirer tabloid propaganda.
> > >
> > > And, wow, a historian friend who breathlessly claims it will
be
> > > published tomorrow -- but for those who can hardly wait, I reproduce
an
> AP
> > > report of December 18 last which reports the issue as a known story
> line.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: marc.garrett
> > > An editing job for the ages: corporations that aided the
> Iraqis
> > >
> > > As a professional editor, I was particularly curious about
the
> > > "editing" the administration was doing on the 12,000 page Iraqi report
> on
> > > their weapons of mass destruction. Rumors have been swirling. The
> Americans
> > > claim, of course, that they were vetting the report for WMD-making
> > > instructions before passing it on to the roiling mass of non-veto
> nations in
> > > the Security Council. Others have suggested that part of what was
being
> > > excised was a record of the corporations that once aided Iraq in
> achieving
> > > WMD capabilities.
> > > Now, a historian friend whom I trust has passed the
following
> > > message on to me:
> > >
> > >
> > > "To be reported in tomorrow's Die Tageszeitung (Berlin
> daily),
> > > here is a list of US and European corporations that allegedly supplied
> Iraq
> > > with nuclear, chemical, biological, and missile technology, prior to
> 1991.
> > > The list comes, it seems, from the original Iraqi report to the
Security
> > > Council.
> > >
> http://www.nationinstitute.org/tomdispatch/index.mhtml?pid#3
> > > Iraq Used Many Suppliers for Nuke Program
> > > By DAFNA LINZER Associated Press Writer
> > >
> > > UNITED NATIONS (AP) - Dozens of suppliers, most in Europe,
> the
> > > United States and Japan, provided the components and know-how Saddam
> Hussein
> > > needed to build an atomic bomb, according to Iraq's 1996 accounting of
> its
> > > nuclear program.
> > >
> > > The secret declaration, shown to The Associated Press, is
> virtually
> > > identical to the one submitted to U.N. inspectors on Dec. 7, according
> to
> > > U.N. officials. The reports have not been made public to prevent
nuclear
> > > know-how from falling into the wrong hands and also to protect the
names
> of
> > > companies that wittingly or unwittingly supplied Iraq with the means
to
> make
> > > nuclear weapons.
> > >
> > > U.N. officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said
the
> only
> > > difference between the two reports is that the latest has a 300-page
> section
> > > in Arabic on civilian nuclear programs and a slightly larger typeface
> that
> > > stretches it to 2,100 pages.
> > >
> > > That foreign companies helped Iraq has long been known, and
> some of
> > > them have been identified before, but the Iraqi accounting adds up to
> the
> > > most exhaustive list so far of companies involved.
> > >
> > > Iraq's report says the equipment was either sold or made by
> more
> > > than 30 German companies, 10 American companies, 11 British companies
> and a
> > > handful of Swiss, Japanese, Italian, French, Swedish and Brazilian
> firms. It
> > > says more than 30 countries supplied its nuclear program.
> > >
> > > It details nuclear efforts from the early 1980s to the Gulf
> War and
> > > contains diagrams, plans and test results in uranium enrichment,
> detonation,
> > > implosion testing and warhead construction.
> > >
> > > In one chapter, Iraq admits to having a pilot plan in
> September
> > > 1990 - one month after it invaded Kuwait - to increase the enrichment
of
> > > recovered uranium to 93 percent using centrifuges. The process is a
> > > complicated extraction and purification method that at full scale
> requires
> > > thousands of connected, high speed centrifuges.
> > >
> > > According to Iraq's report, the most detailed accounting of
> its
> > > former nuclear weapons program, it was also pursuing electromagnetic
> isotope
> > > separation as another method to enrich uranium, the key ingredient for
> an
> > > atomic explosion.
> > >
> > > The Iraqis had everything they needed to make nuclear
weapons,
> said
> > > Gary Milhollin, director of the Wisconsin Project, a Washington-based
> think
> > > tank on nuclear arms control. "They weren't missing any components or
> any
> > > knowledge," he said in a phone interview. "It was simply a matter of
> time."
> > >
> > > Milhollin said that had it not been for the 1991 Gulf War,
> Iraq
> > > would have had nuclear weapons by now, thanks to hundreds of suppliers
> who
> > > sold it an impressive array of equipment and expertise, often with
their
> > > government's approval and without being aware of the ultimate purpose.
> > > According to the Iraqi accounting, induction and electron beam
furnaces,
> > > which could be used in shaping uranium parts for an atomic bomb, came
> from
> > > Consarc Corp. of Rancocas, N.J. The company says the items were never
> > > delivered, however.
> > >
> > > Newport Corp. of Irvine, Calif., is listed as a supplier of
> optical
> > > fiber, a product with uses ranging from communications to medical
> equipment.
> > > But the company said it doesn't carry the model listed in the
> declaration.
> > >
> > > EEV Inc., based outside New York City, is listed as a
supplier
> of a
> > > thyratron, which the company says is used in medical imaging
equipment.
> It
> > > could not immediately verify the sale of the item.
> > >
> > > Motorola Inc., was listed as the seller of fast
> photodetectors, but
> > > company spokeswoman Jennifer Weyrauch said she found no record to
> support the
> > > claim. "A photodetector product is not part of Motorola's current
> portfolio."
> > >
> > > Most of the sales were legal and often made with the
knowledge
> of
> > > governments. In 1985-90, the U.S. Commerce Department, for example,
> licensed
> > > $1.5 billion in sales to Iraq of American technology with potential
> military
> > > uses. Iraq was then getting Western support for its war against Iran,
> which
> > > at the time was regarded as the main threat to stability in the
oil-rich
> Gulf
> > > region.
> > >
> > > But inspectors have discovered over the years that Iraq
often
> > > obtained supplies through middlemen or by lying to companies about the
> > > products' intended use.
> > >
> > > "It was useful in the past and it will be useful in the
future
> to
> > > go to companies and ask them questions," said Ewen Buchanan, spokesman
> for
> > > the U.N. weapons inspectors. While the Iraqi declaration provides a
lot
> of
> > > important information, the companies can often give inspectors insight
> into
> > > the real extent of Iraq's programs.
> > >
> > > Since the Gulf War, dozens of companies have either admitted
> to
> > > sales or were prosecuted in Europe for helping arm Iraq. Several no
> longer
> > > exist.
> > >
> > > "Revealing company names can discourage other companies from
> > > getting involved in deals with countries like Iraq where you don't
> really
> > > know the true end-use of your products," said David Albright, an
> American
> > > nuclear expert and a weapons inspector in 1996.
> > >
> > > According to Iraq's accounting, the real help came from
German
> > > experts and companies, in particular H&H Metallform, which sold the
> Iraqis
> > > old designs for centrifuges.
> > >
> > > Cooperation with H&H "was fruitful and it was called upon to
> render
> > > technical assistance and consultations in various activities," Iraq
> wrote in
> > > its nuclear declaration.
> > >
> > > In 1993, German courts found two H&H employees guilty of
> violating
> > > export law and sentenced them to over two years in prison for working
> with
> > > Iraq.
> > >
> > > German companies allegedly involved in other aspects of
Iraq's
> > > former weapons programs were named in a report Tuesday in the German
> daily
> > > Die Tag. The report also said companies such as DaimlerChrysler,
Siemens
> and
> > > Preussag sold items to Iraq which were diverted to the weapons
programs.
> > >
> > > The companies either declined to comment on the report, or
> said the
> > > deliveries had nothing to do with weapons, such as trucks or auto
parts
> from
> > > DaimlerChrysler.
> > >
> > > Some of Iraq's nuclear materials were destroyed during
> previous
> > > U.N. inspections, and Iraq is now banned from repurchasing much of it.
> But
> > > reconnaissance photos released by the Bush administration in October
> indicate
> > > the Iraqis have been rebuilding sites previously used for nuclear
> > > development. A recent U.S. intelligence report says Iraq may have
> nuclear
> > > weapons by 2010.
> > >
> > > Iraq acknowledged to inspectors last month that it was
> importing
> > > aluminum tubes which it said were for conventional weapons. The Bush
> > > administration said the tubes could be used to construct centrifuges
for
> > > uranium enrichment. But nuclear experts differ on whether the tubes
are
> of
> > > the proper size and material.
> > >
> > > What Iraq still has, however, is the expertise to start
again.
> > >
> > > Albright said the new evidence, coupled with long-running
> > > suspicions "that Iraq continued its nuclear weapons program even while
> > > inspectors were on the ground in the '90s," is what makes the latest
> > > declaration such a disappointment.
> > >
> > > Mohammed ElBaradei, chief of the International Atomic Energy
> > > Agency, said last week that the new submission amounts to a rehash of
> the
> > > 1996 report and covers "material we already had before."
> > >
> > > A line-by-line comparison of the table of contents from the
> 1996
> > > declaration and the 2002 version which was released last week by the
> United
> > > Nations finds subtle differences, mainly in translation, but not in
> > > substance.
> > >
> > > Inspectors were not surprised that Iraq resubmitted old
> reports
> > > since Baghdad claims it hasn't been working on weapons of mass
> destruction
> > > since the 1991 Gulf War. A submission of anything new would have
> contradicted
> > > that claim.
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > EDITOR'S NOTE: Associated Press National Writer Matt
Crenson,
> > > investigative researcher Randy Herschaft and Frankfurt correspondent
> Melissa
> > > Eddy contributed to this report.
> >
>
>