ARTBASE (1)
BIO
Belgrade artists Marija Vauda and Nikola Pilipovic have been
collaborating as MANIK since 1999.Their work reflects the
march of history, sometimes literally outside their studio, and a
dialogue with the international artistic community through
organisations and events such as Rhizome and Free Manifesta. Tiija is
their first weblog piece, their previous work has been in mediums as
diverse as video, performance, happenings, email, painting and
installation.
collaborating as MANIK since 1999.Their work reflects the
march of history, sometimes literally outside their studio, and a
dialogue with the international artistic community through
organisations and events such as Rhizome and Free Manifesta. Tiija is
their first weblog piece, their previous work has been in mediums as
diverse as video, performance, happenings, email, painting and
installation.
Re: you are being mapped
NEO-MIMESIS
Voluntarily participation in different kind of "social action"(answering on
every kind of question)suit nice to cyber space.Singularity is replaced with
general scanning,instead recognized personal image people agree to be part
of social DNK.Interesting!
E.Canetti in "Masse und Macht"pointed question as "sting",attack,ones and
forever stick in(singular)body.
Masse und Macht,chapter"Question and answer"(page 241);In one Serbian
story"Around noon young girl sleep in grass.Her boyfriend was awake and
think about how to get a rid of her.Than came "Noon Woman"and start to ask
him a question.He answered,but she had new and new question.After one hour
his hart was broken.She ask him until he died."(origin:Wendishe
Sagen,pub.Siebera,Jena 1925).
This action(>
http://www.marumushi.com/apps/socialcircles/socialcircles.cfm?list=rhizome)
belong to corpus of unconceshnes investigation,and like the other of same
kind could be interesting for somebody(not just for Marcos).Typical product
of neoliberalism and globalism.After all we belong,we are prisoner,of those
ideological formation.All answer we give to anybody are part of giant
image,ultra mimesis of epoque without individuality.
Of course,there's some ideas which pretend to do something
else-ALTERGLOBALISM.For beginning- George Monbio:The age of consent...
Anyway;how can I be sure for destination of all that material?I strongly
belief that it could bee opposite of neo-mimesis,necrophilia exploitation
of(generally)innocent "subject".
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "marcos weskamp" <bulkmail@marcosweskamp.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 5:18 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: you are being mapped
> Dear rhizomers,
>
> notice: All email sent to this list is being confiscated and analized.
>
> Which are the dynamics of mailing lists as social groups? How do they
> organize themselves? Who are the main speakers and who the most socially
> visual persons in those groups?
> http://www.marumushi.com/apps/socialcircles/
>
> Ever wondered how the rhizome list would look like if you wanted to draw a
> map of it?
> http://www.marumushi.com/apps/socialcircles/socialcircles.cfm?list=rhizome
>
> All emails to the list are beeing plotted as they happen, which makes
these
> diagrams almost *live* snapshots of the current status of the lists.
> Although on the works is a version which will let you see straight into
your
> inbox, in the time beeing if anyone has further ideas on lists you'd like
to
> see, please drop me a line.
>
> behave,
>
> -marcos
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
Voluntarily participation in different kind of "social action"(answering on
every kind of question)suit nice to cyber space.Singularity is replaced with
general scanning,instead recognized personal image people agree to be part
of social DNK.Interesting!
E.Canetti in "Masse und Macht"pointed question as "sting",attack,ones and
forever stick in(singular)body.
Masse und Macht,chapter"Question and answer"(page 241);In one Serbian
story"Around noon young girl sleep in grass.Her boyfriend was awake and
think about how to get a rid of her.Than came "Noon Woman"and start to ask
him a question.He answered,but she had new and new question.After one hour
his hart was broken.She ask him until he died."(origin:Wendishe
Sagen,pub.Siebera,Jena 1925).
This action(>
http://www.marumushi.com/apps/socialcircles/socialcircles.cfm?list=rhizome)
belong to corpus of unconceshnes investigation,and like the other of same
kind could be interesting for somebody(not just for Marcos).Typical product
of neoliberalism and globalism.After all we belong,we are prisoner,of those
ideological formation.All answer we give to anybody are part of giant
image,ultra mimesis of epoque without individuality.
Of course,there's some ideas which pretend to do something
else-ALTERGLOBALISM.For beginning- George Monbio:The age of consent...
Anyway;how can I be sure for destination of all that material?I strongly
belief that it could bee opposite of neo-mimesis,necrophilia exploitation
of(generally)innocent "subject".
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "marcos weskamp" <bulkmail@marcosweskamp.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 5:18 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: you are being mapped
> Dear rhizomers,
>
> notice: All email sent to this list is being confiscated and analized.
>
> Which are the dynamics of mailing lists as social groups? How do they
> organize themselves? Who are the main speakers and who the most socially
> visual persons in those groups?
> http://www.marumushi.com/apps/socialcircles/
>
> Ever wondered how the rhizome list would look like if you wanted to draw a
> map of it?
> http://www.marumushi.com/apps/socialcircles/socialcircles.cfm?list=rhizome
>
> All emails to the list are beeing plotted as they happen, which makes
these
> diagrams almost *live* snapshots of the current status of the lists.
> Although on the works is a version which will let you see straight into
your
> inbox, in the time beeing if anyone has further ideas on lists you'd like
to
> see, please drop me a line.
>
> behave,
>
> -marcos
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
Practical handbook for beginners-lovers
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Re: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
Happy new year.Of course you are right.
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Simoni" <justin@skazat.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Cc: "manik" <manik@ptt.yu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
> > There's one more recipes for watercolor
>
> To let you know, the first one wasn't mine; it's from a friend named Harry
> S. Walters. Interesting guy. Interesting painting.
>
> > Your work are very laud(as your words).Unfortunately for
> > you.
>
> .. Not really following you, which work? I think it's OK to like things.
My
> g/f thinks I'm too critical.
>
> > Unfortunately for
> > you.
>
> Again, not following you, but list: do all conversations on this list end
in
> name calling? Is that why there really aren't any threads? There seems to
be
> some intelligent people on this list, and a few egos. Is there a better
list
> for this type of discussion?
>
> Critical examination is fine, but talk is cheap without some back up.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Justin Simoni | http://justinsimoni.com | 720 436 7701
>
> - Starving artist by day,
> - Poetic philosopher by night
> - Computer programmer in the wee hours.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/30/03 12:28 PM, "manik" <manik@ptt.yu> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt and
> >> make
> >> pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set
> >> of
> >> rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like
> >> any
> >> little Flash animation toy.
> >
> > Cool!
> >
> > There's one more recipes for watercolor;don't eat two days,drink 4 liter
> > water a day,eat different acrylic color.
> > Pies on paper
> > Shit on canvas.
> > Dear Justin,after that you(mmmaybe?!?) could be sort of creative person.
> > What do you think?Your work are very laud(as your words).Unfortunately
for
> > you.
> > MANIK
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rob Myers" <robmyers@mac.com>
> > To: <list@rhizome.org>
> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
> >
> >
> >> On 29 Dec 2003, at 07:31, Justin Simoni wrote:
> >>
> >>>> OOP as in novel-length projects; a methodology for making a code
> >>>> project
> >>>> manageable when it gets big. like chapters and paragraphs and so on,
> >>>
> >>> I don't think you're analogy is entirely correct. OOP is used to cut a
> >>> project into "objects" (thus the name), which can then be combined in
> >>> different ways, be inherited, and all that cal. I would say that this
> >>> is
> >>> very similar to any sort of note-taking during the novel writing
phase.
> >>
> >> Objects are also called "actors" in some methodologies and views. You
> >> can model conventional narrative very simply as an OO system. Indeed
> >> modern computer games are based on this assumption.
> >>
> >>> For instance, I have index card for the "Bad Guys", which are like
> >>> a,b,c.
> >>
> >> This is very much like the CRC Cards used in OOP.
> >>
> >>> You'd be better comparing how OOP is to procedural programming as
> >>> traditional writing is to nonlinear writing.
> >>
> >> There's work done on computational narrative, including a Prolog
> >> grammar for simple narrative. There's even been conferences, but I
> >> don't have the URLs to hand.
> >> Propp's "Morphology Of The Folktale" is an unintentional classic in
> >> computational narrative.
> >>
> >> Bear in mind that procedural/functional/logical programming can all
> >> write the same programs, they just supposedly make tackling some
> >> classes of problems more or less easy. It's *NOT* like translating a
> >> novel from French to English, there are no untranslatable concepts
> >> lurking in the text.
> >>
> >> That said, a functional/procedural/object plot structure or descriptive
> >> technique could be interesting, at least as a thought experiment.
> >>
> >>>> how do you update the novel form?
> >>>
> >>> Wasn't the novel, "novel" once?
> >>
> >> I'd be more interested in updating the novel content. Form will follow
> >> (see the 1960s "New Wave" of SF, especially Michael Moorcock's "Jerry
> >> Cornelius" short stories).
> >>
> >>>> it wouldn't be what it is without its history, but the very history
> >>>> prevents
> >>>> it from being recast into what you want to create next.
> >>>
> >>> You could probably say the same thing about painting and you'd
> >>> probably be
> >>> wrong.
> >>
> >> Indeed. Ignorance is bliss for the producer but not the consumer.
> >> Uninformed production tends to provincialism. Refusal requires that you
> >> know what you're refusing, and rebellion requires that you know what
> >> you're rebelling against. Etc.
> >>
> >>> Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt and
> >>> make
> >>> pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set
> >>> of
> >>> rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like
> >>> any
> >>> little Flash animation toy.
> >>
> >> Cool!
> >>
> >>> So what's your point? No more interesting poems? Poop.
> >>> If you say nothing is left to be done with something, something new
> >>> will be
> >>> done with it; just like your weeds.
> >>
> >> The idea that everything has been done has been done. It requires an
> >> extraordinary presumption of ultimacy on the part of one's taste. The
> >> idea of the exhaustion of <insert form here> is a reaction to a
> >> specific set of post-Second-World-War conditions that can only now hold
> >> as affectation or unconsidered dogma.
> >>
> >> But it fills essays, as it has for decades.
> >>
> >> - Rob.
> >>
> >> +
> >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> >> +
> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >
> > +
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
>
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Simoni" <justin@skazat.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Cc: "manik" <manik@ptt.yu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
> > There's one more recipes for watercolor
>
> To let you know, the first one wasn't mine; it's from a friend named Harry
> S. Walters. Interesting guy. Interesting painting.
>
> > Your work are very laud(as your words).Unfortunately for
> > you.
>
> .. Not really following you, which work? I think it's OK to like things.
My
> g/f thinks I'm too critical.
>
> > Unfortunately for
> > you.
>
> Again, not following you, but list: do all conversations on this list end
in
> name calling? Is that why there really aren't any threads? There seems to
be
> some intelligent people on this list, and a few egos. Is there a better
list
> for this type of discussion?
>
> Critical examination is fine, but talk is cheap without some back up.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Justin Simoni | http://justinsimoni.com | 720 436 7701
>
> - Starving artist by day,
> - Poetic philosopher by night
> - Computer programmer in the wee hours.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/30/03 12:28 PM, "manik" <manik@ptt.yu> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt and
> >> make
> >> pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set
> >> of
> >> rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like
> >> any
> >> little Flash animation toy.
> >
> > Cool!
> >
> > There's one more recipes for watercolor;don't eat two days,drink 4 liter
> > water a day,eat different acrylic color.
> > Pies on paper
> > Shit on canvas.
> > Dear Justin,after that you(mmmaybe?!?) could be sort of creative person.
> > What do you think?Your work are very laud(as your words).Unfortunately
for
> > you.
> > MANIK
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rob Myers" <robmyers@mac.com>
> > To: <list@rhizome.org>
> > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
> >
> >
> >> On 29 Dec 2003, at 07:31, Justin Simoni wrote:
> >>
> >>>> OOP as in novel-length projects; a methodology for making a code
> >>>> project
> >>>> manageable when it gets big. like chapters and paragraphs and so on,
> >>>
> >>> I don't think you're analogy is entirely correct. OOP is used to cut a
> >>> project into "objects" (thus the name), which can then be combined in
> >>> different ways, be inherited, and all that cal. I would say that this
> >>> is
> >>> very similar to any sort of note-taking during the novel writing
phase.
> >>
> >> Objects are also called "actors" in some methodologies and views. You
> >> can model conventional narrative very simply as an OO system. Indeed
> >> modern computer games are based on this assumption.
> >>
> >>> For instance, I have index card for the "Bad Guys", which are like
> >>> a,b,c.
> >>
> >> This is very much like the CRC Cards used in OOP.
> >>
> >>> You'd be better comparing how OOP is to procedural programming as
> >>> traditional writing is to nonlinear writing.
> >>
> >> There's work done on computational narrative, including a Prolog
> >> grammar for simple narrative. There's even been conferences, but I
> >> don't have the URLs to hand.
> >> Propp's "Morphology Of The Folktale" is an unintentional classic in
> >> computational narrative.
> >>
> >> Bear in mind that procedural/functional/logical programming can all
> >> write the same programs, they just supposedly make tackling some
> >> classes of problems more or less easy. It's *NOT* like translating a
> >> novel from French to English, there are no untranslatable concepts
> >> lurking in the text.
> >>
> >> That said, a functional/procedural/object plot structure or descriptive
> >> technique could be interesting, at least as a thought experiment.
> >>
> >>>> how do you update the novel form?
> >>>
> >>> Wasn't the novel, "novel" once?
> >>
> >> I'd be more interested in updating the novel content. Form will follow
> >> (see the 1960s "New Wave" of SF, especially Michael Moorcock's "Jerry
> >> Cornelius" short stories).
> >>
> >>>> it wouldn't be what it is without its history, but the very history
> >>>> prevents
> >>>> it from being recast into what you want to create next.
> >>>
> >>> You could probably say the same thing about painting and you'd
> >>> probably be
> >>> wrong.
> >>
> >> Indeed. Ignorance is bliss for the producer but not the consumer.
> >> Uninformed production tends to provincialism. Refusal requires that you
> >> know what you're refusing, and rebellion requires that you know what
> >> you're rebelling against. Etc.
> >>
> >>> Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt and
> >>> make
> >>> pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set
> >>> of
> >>> rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like
> >>> any
> >>> little Flash animation toy.
> >>
> >> Cool!
> >>
> >>> So what's your point? No more interesting poems? Poop.
> >>> If you say nothing is left to be done with something, something new
> >>> will be
> >>> done with it; just like your weeds.
> >>
> >> The idea that everything has been done has been done. It requires an
> >> extraordinary presumption of ultimacy on the part of one's taste. The
> >> idea of the exhaustion of <insert form here> is a reaction to a
> >> specific set of post-Second-World-War conditions that can only now hold
> >> as affectation or unconsidered dogma.
> >>
> >> But it fills essays, as it has for decades.
> >>
> >> - Rob.
> >>
> >> +
> >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> >> +
> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >
> > +
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
>
Re: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
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It's all for Justin.I was in mass.Sory Rob.
MANIK
-------Original Message-------
From: manik
Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 21:30:24
To: Rob Myers; list@rhizome.org
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
> Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt and
> make
> pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set
> of
> rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like
> any
> little Flash animation toy.
Cool!
There's one more recipes for watercolor;don't eat two days,drink 4 liter
water a day,eat different acrylic color.
Pies on paper
Shit on canvas.
Dear Justin,after that you(mmmaybe?!?) could be sort of creative person.
What do you think?Your work are very laud(as your words).Unfortunately for=
you.
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Myers" <robmyers@mac.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
> On 29 Dec 2003, at 07:31, Justin Simoni wrote:
>
> >> OOP as in novel-length projects; a methodology for making a code
> >> project
> >> manageable when it gets big. like chapters and paragraphs and so on,=
> >
> > I don't think you're analogy is entirely correct. OOP is used to cut a=
> > project into "objects" (thus the name), which can then be combined in=
> > different ways, be inherited, and all that cal. I would say that this=
> > is
> > very similar to any sort of note-taking during the novel writing phase.=
>
> Objects are also called "actors" in some methodologies and views. You
> can model conventional narrative very simply as an OO system. Indeed
> modern computer games are based on this assumption.
>
> > For instance, I have index card for the "Bad Guys", which are like
> > a,b,c.
>
> This is very much like the CRC Cards used in OOP.
>
> > You'd be better comparing how OOP is to procedural programming as
> > traditional writing is to nonlinear writing.
>
> There's work done on computational narrative, including a Prolog
> grammar for simple narrative. There's even been conferences, but I
> don't have the URLs to hand.
> Propp's "Morphology Of The Folktale" is an unintentional classic in
> computational narrative.
>
> Bear in mind that procedural/functional/logical programming can all
> write the same programs, they just supposedly make tackling some
> classes of problems more or less easy. It's *NOT* like translating a
> novel from French to English, there are no untranslatable concepts
> lurking in the text.
>
> That said, a functional/procedural/object plot structure or descriptive=
> technique could be interesting, at least as a thought experiment.
>
> >> how do you update the novel form?
> >
> > Wasn't the novel, "novel" once?
>
> I'd be more interested in updating the novel content. Form will follow
> (see the 1960s "New Wave" of SF, especially Michael Moorcock's "Jerry
> Cornelius" short stories).
>
> >> it wouldn't be what it is without its history, but the very history
> >> prevents
> >> it from being recast into what you want to create next.
> >
> > You could probably say the same thing about painting and you'd
> > probably be
> > wrong.
>
> Indeed. Ignorance is bliss for the producer but not the consumer.
> Uninformed production tends to provincialism. Refusal requires that you=
> know what you're refusing, and rebellion requires that you know what
> you're rebelling against. Etc.
>
> > Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt and
> > make
> > pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set=
> > of
> > rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like=
> > any
> > little Flash animation toy.
>
> Cool!
>
> > So what's your point? No more interesting poems? Poop.
> > If you say nothing is left to be done with something, something new
> > will be
> > done with it; just like your weeds.
>
> The idea that everything has been done has been done. It requires an
> extraordinary presumption of ultimacy on the part of one's taste. The
> idea of the exhaustion of <insert form here> is a reaction to a
> specific set of post-Second-World-War conditions that can only now hold=
> as affectation or unconsidered dogma.
>
> But it fills essays, as it has for decades.
>
> - Rob.
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz=
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php=
>
>
+
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
-> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
.
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>
<DIV>It's all for Justin.I was in mass.Sory Rob.</DIV>
<DIV>MANIK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=IncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------</I=
></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=receivestrings>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>From:</B></I> <A
href="mailto:manik@ptt.yu">manik</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Date:</B></I> Tuesday,=
December
30, 2003 21:30:24</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>To:</B></I> <A
href="mailto:robmyers@mac.com">Rob Myers</A>; <A
href="mailto:list@rhizome.org">list@rhizome.org</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Subject:</B></I> Re:=
RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>> Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wai=
t
till they melt and<BR>> make<BR>> pretty designs. There you go:=
a
non-determinant painting, given a set<BR>> of<BR>> rules that c=
an be
adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like<BR>> any<BR>&g=
t;
little Flash animation toy.<BR><BR>Cool!<BR><BR>There's one more reci=
pes
for watercolor;don't eat two days,drink 4 liter<BR>water a day,eat
different acrylic color.<BR>Pies on paper<BR>Shit on canvas.<BR>Dear=
Justin,after that you(mmmaybe?!?) could be sort of creative
person.<BR>What do you think?Your work are very laud(as your
words).Unfortunately for<BR>you.<BR>MANIK<BR><BR><BR>----- Original=
Message -----<BR>From: "Rob Myers" <<A
href="mailto:robmyers@mac.com">robmyers@mac.com</A>><BR>To: <=
<A
href="mailto:list@rhizome.org">list@rhizome.org</A>><BR>Sent: Mo=
nday,
December 29, 2003 9:35 PM<BR>Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapter=
s,
spagetti poedry<BR><BR><BR>> On 29 Dec 2003, at 07:31, Justin Simo=
ni
wrote:<BR>><BR>> >> OOP as in novel-length projects; a
methodology for making a code<BR>> >> project<BR>> >&g=
t;
manageable when it gets big. like chapters and paragraphs and so
on,<BR>> ><BR>> > I don't think you're analogy is entirel=
y
correct. OOP is used to cut a<BR>> > project into "objects" (th=
us
the name), which can then be combined in<BR>> > different ways,=
be
inherited, and all that cal. I would say that this<BR>> > is<BR=
>>
> very similar to any sort of note-taking during the novel writing=
phase.<BR>><BR>> Objects are also called "actors" in some
methodologies and views. You<BR>> can model conventional narrative=
very
simply as an OO system. Indeed<BR>> modern computer games are base=
d on
this assumption.<BR>><BR>> > For instance, I have index card=
for
the "Bad Guys", which are like<BR>> > a,b,c.<BR>><BR>> Th=
is is
very much like the CRC Cards used in OOP.<BR>><BR>> > You'd =
be
better comparing how OOP is to procedural programming as<BR>> >=
traditional writing is to nonlinear writing.<BR>><BR>> There's =
work
done on computational narrative, including a Prolog<BR>> grammar f=
or
simple narrative. There's even been conferences, but I<BR>> don't =
have
the URLs to hand.<BR>> Propp's "Morphology Of The Folktale" is an=
unintentional classic in<BR>> computational narrative.<BR>><BR>=
>
Bear in mind that procedural/functional/logical programming can
all<BR>> write the same programs, they just supposedly make tackli=
ng
some<BR>> classes of problems more or less easy. It's *NOT* like=
translating a<BR>> novel from French to English, there are no
untranslatable concepts<BR>> lurking in the text.<BR>><BR>> =
That
said, a functional/procedural/object plot structure or descriptive<BR=
>>
technique could be interesting, at least as a thought
experiment.<BR>><BR>> >> how do you update the novel
form?<BR>> ><BR>> > Wasn't the novel, "novel"
once?<BR>><BR>> I'd be more interested in updating the novel
content. Form will follow<BR>> (see the 1960s "New Wave" of SF,
especially Michael Moorcock's "Jerry<BR>> Cornelius" short
stories).<BR>><BR>> >> it wouldn't be what it is without =
its
history, but the very history<BR>> >> prevents<BR>> >&=
gt;
it from being recast into what you want to create next.<BR>>
><BR>> > You could probably say the same thing about paintin=
g and
you'd<BR>> > probably be<BR>> > wrong.<BR>><BR>> In=
deed.
Ignorance is bliss for the producer but not the consumer.<BR>>
Uninformed production tends to provincialism. Refusal requires that=
you<BR>> know what you're refusing, and rebellion requires that yo=
u
know what<BR>> you're rebelling against. Etc.<BR>><BR>> >=
Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt
and<BR>> > make<BR>> > pretty designs. There you go: a
non-determinant painting, given a set<BR>> > of<BR>> > ru=
les
that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like<BR>&g=
t;
> any<BR>> > little Flash animation toy.<BR>><BR>>
Cool!<BR>><BR>> > So what's your point? No more interesting=
poems? Poop.<BR>> > If you say nothing is left to be done with=
something, something new<BR>> > will be<BR>> > done with =
it;
just like your weeds.<BR>><BR>> The idea that everything has be=
en
done has been done. It requires an<BR>> extraordinary presumption =
of
ultimacy on the part of one's taste. The<BR>> idea of the exhausti=
on of
<insert form here> is a reaction to a<BR>> specific set of=
post-Second-World-War conditions that can only now hold<BR>> as
affectation or unconsidered dogma.<BR>><BR>> But it fills essay=
s, as
it has for decades.<BR>><BR>> - Rob.<BR>><BR>> +<BR>> =
->
post: <A href="mailto:list@rhizome.org">list@rhizome.org</A><BR>>=
; ->
questions: <A href="mailto:info@rhizome.org">info@rhizome.org</A><B=
R>>
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: <A
href="http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz">http://rhizome=
.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz</A><BR>>
-> give: <A
href="http://rhizome.org/support">http://rhizome.org/support</A><BR=
>>
-> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to
non-members<BR>> +<BR>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to t=
he
terms set out in the<BR>> Membership Agreement available online at=
<A
href="http://rhizome.org/info/29.php">http://rhizome.org/info/29.ph=
p</A><BR>><BR>><BR><BR>+<BR>->
post: <A href="mailto:list@rhizome.org">list@rhizome.org</A><BR>-&g=
t;
questions: <A href="mailto:info@rhizome.org">info@rhizome.org</A><B=
R>->
subscribe/unsubscribe: <A
href="http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz">http://rhizome=
.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz</A><BR>->
give: <A
href="http://rhizome.org/support">http://rhizome.org/support</A><BR=
>->
visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to
non-members<BR>+<BR>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms s=
et
out in the<BR>Membership Agreement available online at <A
href="http://rhizome.org/info/29.php">http://rhizome.org/info/29.ph=
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It's all for Justin.I was in mass.Sory Rob.
MANIK
-------Original Message-------
From: manik
Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 21:30:24
To: Rob Myers; list@rhizome.org
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
> Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt and
> make
> pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set
> of
> rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like
> any
> little Flash animation toy.
Cool!
There's one more recipes for watercolor;don't eat two days,drink 4 liter
water a day,eat different acrylic color.
Pies on paper
Shit on canvas.
Dear Justin,after that you(mmmaybe?!?) could be sort of creative person.
What do you think?Your work are very laud(as your words).Unfortunately for=
you.
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Myers" <robmyers@mac.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
> On 29 Dec 2003, at 07:31, Justin Simoni wrote:
>
> >> OOP as in novel-length projects; a methodology for making a code
> >> project
> >> manageable when it gets big. like chapters and paragraphs and so on,=
> >
> > I don't think you're analogy is entirely correct. OOP is used to cut a=
> > project into "objects" (thus the name), which can then be combined in=
> > different ways, be inherited, and all that cal. I would say that this=
> > is
> > very similar to any sort of note-taking during the novel writing phase.=
>
> Objects are also called "actors" in some methodologies and views. You
> can model conventional narrative very simply as an OO system. Indeed
> modern computer games are based on this assumption.
>
> > For instance, I have index card for the "Bad Guys", which are like
> > a,b,c.
>
> This is very much like the CRC Cards used in OOP.
>
> > You'd be better comparing how OOP is to procedural programming as
> > traditional writing is to nonlinear writing.
>
> There's work done on computational narrative, including a Prolog
> grammar for simple narrative. There's even been conferences, but I
> don't have the URLs to hand.
> Propp's "Morphology Of The Folktale" is an unintentional classic in
> computational narrative.
>
> Bear in mind that procedural/functional/logical programming can all
> write the same programs, they just supposedly make tackling some
> classes of problems more or less easy. It's *NOT* like translating a
> novel from French to English, there are no untranslatable concepts
> lurking in the text.
>
> That said, a functional/procedural/object plot structure or descriptive=
> technique could be interesting, at least as a thought experiment.
>
> >> how do you update the novel form?
> >
> > Wasn't the novel, "novel" once?
>
> I'd be more interested in updating the novel content. Form will follow
> (see the 1960s "New Wave" of SF, especially Michael Moorcock's "Jerry
> Cornelius" short stories).
>
> >> it wouldn't be what it is without its history, but the very history
> >> prevents
> >> it from being recast into what you want to create next.
> >
> > You could probably say the same thing about painting and you'd
> > probably be
> > wrong.
>
> Indeed. Ignorance is bliss for the producer but not the consumer.
> Uninformed production tends to provincialism. Refusal requires that you=
> know what you're refusing, and rebellion requires that you know what
> you're rebelling against. Etc.
>
> > Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt and
> > make
> > pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set=
> > of
> > rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like=
> > any
> > little Flash animation toy.
>
> Cool!
>
> > So what's your point? No more interesting poems? Poop.
> > If you say nothing is left to be done with something, something new
> > will be
> > done with it; just like your weeds.
>
> The idea that everything has been done has been done. It requires an
> extraordinary presumption of ultimacy on the part of one's taste. The
> idea of the exhaustion of <insert form here> is a reaction to a
> specific set of post-Second-World-War conditions that can only now hold=
> as affectation or unconsidered dogma.
>
> But it fills essays, as it has for decades.
>
> - Rob.
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz=
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php=
>
>
+
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
-> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
.
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>
<DIV>It's all for Justin.I was in mass.Sory Rob.</DIV>
<DIV>MANIK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=IncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------</I=
></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=receivestrings>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>From:</B></I> <A
href="mailto:manik@ptt.yu">manik</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Date:</B></I> Tuesday,=
December
30, 2003 21:30:24</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>To:</B></I> <A
href="mailto:robmyers@mac.com">Rob Myers</A>; <A
href="mailto:list@rhizome.org">list@rhizome.org</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Subject:</B></I> Re:=
RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>> Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wai=
t
till they melt and<BR>> make<BR>> pretty designs. There you go:=
a
non-determinant painting, given a set<BR>> of<BR>> rules that c=
an be
adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like<BR>> any<BR>&g=
t;
little Flash animation toy.<BR><BR>Cool!<BR><BR>There's one more reci=
pes
for watercolor;don't eat two days,drink 4 liter<BR>water a day,eat
different acrylic color.<BR>Pies on paper<BR>Shit on canvas.<BR>Dear=
Justin,after that you(mmmaybe?!?) could be sort of creative
person.<BR>What do you think?Your work are very laud(as your
words).Unfortunately for<BR>you.<BR>MANIK<BR><BR><BR>----- Original=
Message -----<BR>From: "Rob Myers" <<A
href="mailto:robmyers@mac.com">robmyers@mac.com</A>><BR>To: <=
<A
href="mailto:list@rhizome.org">list@rhizome.org</A>><BR>Sent: Mo=
nday,
December 29, 2003 9:35 PM<BR>Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapter=
s,
spagetti poedry<BR><BR><BR>> On 29 Dec 2003, at 07:31, Justin Simo=
ni
wrote:<BR>><BR>> >> OOP as in novel-length projects; a
methodology for making a code<BR>> >> project<BR>> >&g=
t;
manageable when it gets big. like chapters and paragraphs and so
on,<BR>> ><BR>> > I don't think you're analogy is entirel=
y
correct. OOP is used to cut a<BR>> > project into "objects" (th=
us
the name), which can then be combined in<BR>> > different ways,=
be
inherited, and all that cal. I would say that this<BR>> > is<BR=
>>
> very similar to any sort of note-taking during the novel writing=
phase.<BR>><BR>> Objects are also called "actors" in some
methodologies and views. You<BR>> can model conventional narrative=
very
simply as an OO system. Indeed<BR>> modern computer games are base=
d on
this assumption.<BR>><BR>> > For instance, I have index card=
for
the "Bad Guys", which are like<BR>> > a,b,c.<BR>><BR>> Th=
is is
very much like the CRC Cards used in OOP.<BR>><BR>> > You'd =
be
better comparing how OOP is to procedural programming as<BR>> >=
traditional writing is to nonlinear writing.<BR>><BR>> There's =
work
done on computational narrative, including a Prolog<BR>> grammar f=
or
simple narrative. There's even been conferences, but I<BR>> don't =
have
the URLs to hand.<BR>> Propp's "Morphology Of The Folktale" is an=
unintentional classic in<BR>> computational narrative.<BR>><BR>=
>
Bear in mind that procedural/functional/logical programming can
all<BR>> write the same programs, they just supposedly make tackli=
ng
some<BR>> classes of problems more or less easy. It's *NOT* like=
translating a<BR>> novel from French to English, there are no
untranslatable concepts<BR>> lurking in the text.<BR>><BR>> =
That
said, a functional/procedural/object plot structure or descriptive<BR=
>>
technique could be interesting, at least as a thought
experiment.<BR>><BR>> >> how do you update the novel
form?<BR>> ><BR>> > Wasn't the novel, "novel"
once?<BR>><BR>> I'd be more interested in updating the novel
content. Form will follow<BR>> (see the 1960s "New Wave" of SF,
especially Michael Moorcock's "Jerry<BR>> Cornelius" short
stories).<BR>><BR>> >> it wouldn't be what it is without =
its
history, but the very history<BR>> >> prevents<BR>> >&=
gt;
it from being recast into what you want to create next.<BR>>
><BR>> > You could probably say the same thing about paintin=
g and
you'd<BR>> > probably be<BR>> > wrong.<BR>><BR>> In=
deed.
Ignorance is bliss for the producer but not the consumer.<BR>>
Uninformed production tends to provincialism. Refusal requires that=
you<BR>> know what you're refusing, and rebellion requires that yo=
u
know what<BR>> you're rebelling against. Etc.<BR>><BR>> >=
Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt
and<BR>> > make<BR>> > pretty designs. There you go: a
non-determinant painting, given a set<BR>> > of<BR>> > ru=
les
that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like<BR>&g=
t;
> any<BR>> > little Flash animation toy.<BR>><BR>>
Cool!<BR>><BR>> > So what's your point? No more interesting=
poems? Poop.<BR>> > If you say nothing is left to be done with=
something, something new<BR>> > will be<BR>> > done with =
it;
just like your weeds.<BR>><BR>> The idea that everything has be=
en
done has been done. It requires an<BR>> extraordinary presumption =
of
ultimacy on the part of one's taste. The<BR>> idea of the exhausti=
on of
<insert form here> is a reaction to a<BR>> specific set of=
post-Second-World-War conditions that can only now hold<BR>> as
affectation or unconsidered dogma.<BR>><BR>> But it fills essay=
s, as
it has for decades.<BR>><BR>> - Rob.<BR>><BR>> +<BR>> =
->
post: <A href="mailto:list@rhizome.org">list@rhizome.org</A><BR>>=
; ->
questions: <A href="mailto:info@rhizome.org">info@rhizome.org</A><B=
R>>
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: <A
href="http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz">http://rhizome=
.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz</A><BR>>
-> give: <A
href="http://rhizome.org/support">http://rhizome.org/support</A><BR=
>>
-> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to
non-members<BR>> +<BR>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to t=
he
terms set out in the<BR>> Membership Agreement available online at=
<A
href="http://rhizome.org/info/29.php">http://rhizome.org/info/29.ph=
p</A><BR>><BR>><BR><BR>+<BR>->
post: <A href="mailto:list@rhizome.org">list@rhizome.org</A><BR>-&g=
t;
questions: <A href="mailto:info@rhizome.org">info@rhizome.org</A><B=
R>->
subscribe/unsubscribe: <A
href="http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz">http://rhizome=
.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz</A><BR>->
give: <A
href="http://rhizome.org/support">http://rhizome.org/support</A><BR=
>->
visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to
non-members<BR>+<BR>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms s=
et
out in the<BR>Membership Agreement available online at <A
href="http://rhizome.org/info/29.php">http://rhizome.org/info/29.ph=
p</A><BR><BR>.</TD>
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Re: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
> Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt and
> make
> pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set
> of
> rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like
> any
> little Flash animation toy.
Cool!
There's one more recipes for watercolor;don't eat two days,drink 4 liter
water a day,eat different acrylic color.
Pies on paper
Shit on canvas.
Dear Justin,after that you(mmmaybe?!?) could be sort of creative person.
What do you think?Your work are very laud(as your words).Unfortunately for
you.
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Myers" <robmyers@mac.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
> On 29 Dec 2003, at 07:31, Justin Simoni wrote:
>
> >> OOP as in novel-length projects; a methodology for making a code
> >> project
> >> manageable when it gets big. like chapters and paragraphs and so on,
> >
> > I don't think you're analogy is entirely correct. OOP is used to cut a
> > project into "objects" (thus the name), which can then be combined in
> > different ways, be inherited, and all that cal. I would say that this
> > is
> > very similar to any sort of note-taking during the novel writing phase.
>
> Objects are also called "actors" in some methodologies and views. You
> can model conventional narrative very simply as an OO system. Indeed
> modern computer games are based on this assumption.
>
> > For instance, I have index card for the "Bad Guys", which are like
> > a,b,c.
>
> This is very much like the CRC Cards used in OOP.
>
> > You'd be better comparing how OOP is to procedural programming as
> > traditional writing is to nonlinear writing.
>
> There's work done on computational narrative, including a Prolog
> grammar for simple narrative. There's even been conferences, but I
> don't have the URLs to hand.
> Propp's "Morphology Of The Folktale" is an unintentional classic in
> computational narrative.
>
> Bear in mind that procedural/functional/logical programming can all
> write the same programs, they just supposedly make tackling some
> classes of problems more or less easy. It's *NOT* like translating a
> novel from French to English, there are no untranslatable concepts
> lurking in the text.
>
> That said, a functional/procedural/object plot structure or descriptive
> technique could be interesting, at least as a thought experiment.
>
> >> how do you update the novel form?
> >
> > Wasn't the novel, "novel" once?
>
> I'd be more interested in updating the novel content. Form will follow
> (see the 1960s "New Wave" of SF, especially Michael Moorcock's "Jerry
> Cornelius" short stories).
>
> >> it wouldn't be what it is without its history, but the very history
> >> prevents
> >> it from being recast into what you want to create next.
> >
> > You could probably say the same thing about painting and you'd
> > probably be
> > wrong.
>
> Indeed. Ignorance is bliss for the producer but not the consumer.
> Uninformed production tends to provincialism. Refusal requires that you
> know what you're refusing, and rebellion requires that you know what
> you're rebelling against. Etc.
>
> > Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt and
> > make
> > pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set
> > of
> > rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like
> > any
> > little Flash animation toy.
>
> Cool!
>
> > So what's your point? No more interesting poems? Poop.
> > If you say nothing is left to be done with something, something new
> > will be
> > done with it; just like your weeds.
>
> The idea that everything has been done has been done. It requires an
> extraordinary presumption of ultimacy on the part of one's taste. The
> idea of the exhaustion of <insert form here> is a reaction to a
> specific set of post-Second-World-War conditions that can only now hold
> as affectation or unconsidered dogma.
>
> But it fills essays, as it has for decades.
>
> - Rob.
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
> make
> pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set
> of
> rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like
> any
> little Flash animation toy.
Cool!
There's one more recipes for watercolor;don't eat two days,drink 4 liter
water a day,eat different acrylic color.
Pies on paper
Shit on canvas.
Dear Justin,after that you(mmmaybe?!?) could be sort of creative person.
What do you think?Your work are very laud(as your words).Unfortunately for
you.
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Myers" <robmyers@mac.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: strict chapters, spagetti poedry
> On 29 Dec 2003, at 07:31, Justin Simoni wrote:
>
> >> OOP as in novel-length projects; a methodology for making a code
> >> project
> >> manageable when it gets big. like chapters and paragraphs and so on,
> >
> > I don't think you're analogy is entirely correct. OOP is used to cut a
> > project into "objects" (thus the name), which can then be combined in
> > different ways, be inherited, and all that cal. I would say that this
> > is
> > very similar to any sort of note-taking during the novel writing phase.
>
> Objects are also called "actors" in some methodologies and views. You
> can model conventional narrative very simply as an OO system. Indeed
> modern computer games are based on this assumption.
>
> > For instance, I have index card for the "Bad Guys", which are like
> > a,b,c.
>
> This is very much like the CRC Cards used in OOP.
>
> > You'd be better comparing how OOP is to procedural programming as
> > traditional writing is to nonlinear writing.
>
> There's work done on computational narrative, including a Prolog
> grammar for simple narrative. There's even been conferences, but I
> don't have the URLs to hand.
> Propp's "Morphology Of The Folktale" is an unintentional classic in
> computational narrative.
>
> Bear in mind that procedural/functional/logical programming can all
> write the same programs, they just supposedly make tackling some
> classes of problems more or less easy. It's *NOT* like translating a
> novel from French to English, there are no untranslatable concepts
> lurking in the text.
>
> That said, a functional/procedural/object plot structure or descriptive
> technique could be interesting, at least as a thought experiment.
>
> >> how do you update the novel form?
> >
> > Wasn't the novel, "novel" once?
>
> I'd be more interested in updating the novel content. Form will follow
> (see the 1960s "New Wave" of SF, especially Michael Moorcock's "Jerry
> Cornelius" short stories).
>
> >> it wouldn't be what it is without its history, but the very history
> >> prevents
> >> it from being recast into what you want to create next.
> >
> > You could probably say the same thing about painting and you'd
> > probably be
> > wrong.
>
> Indeed. Ignorance is bliss for the producer but not the consumer.
> Uninformed production tends to provincialism. Refusal requires that you
> know what you're refusing, and rebellion requires that you know what
> you're rebelling against. Etc.
>
> > Crack watercolor ice cubes onto the canvas; wait till they melt and
> > make
> > pretty designs. There you go: a non-determinant painting, given a set
> > of
> > rules that can be adjusted (for example, temp of the room), just like
> > any
> > little Flash animation toy.
>
> Cool!
>
> > So what's your point? No more interesting poems? Poop.
> > If you say nothing is left to be done with something, something new
> > will be
> > done with it; just like your weeds.
>
> The idea that everything has been done has been done. It requires an
> extraordinary presumption of ultimacy on the part of one's taste. The
> idea of the exhaustion of <insert form here> is a reaction to a
> specific set of post-Second-World-War conditions that can only now hold
> as affectation or unconsidered dogma.
>
> But it fills essays, as it has for decades.
>
> - Rob.
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>