ARTBASE (1)
BIO
Belgrade artists Marija Vauda and Nikola Pilipovic have been
collaborating as MANIK since 1999.Their work reflects the
march of history, sometimes literally outside their studio, and a
dialogue with the international artistic community through
organisations and events such as Rhizome and Free Manifesta. Tiija is
their first weblog piece, their previous work has been in mediums as
diverse as video, performance, happenings, email, painting and
installation.
collaborating as MANIK since 1999.Their work reflects the
march of history, sometimes literally outside their studio, and a
dialogue with the international artistic community through
organisations and events such as Rhizome and Free Manifesta. Tiija is
their first weblog piece, their previous work has been in mediums as
diverse as video, performance, happenings, email, painting and
installation.
Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Rhizome Expands Editorial Scope, Hires Staff Writers
Great idea!
"Small request "show Mr.Twhid's huge ignorance.
Plant in background illustrates idea of rhizome .
I suppose Twhid in background prefer pyramid with pretty eye on the top?
Hip! Hip! Hurey!
Change your mind and PC instead idea of rhizome.
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "T.Whid" <twhid@twhid.com>
To: "Marisa Olson" <marisa@rhizome.org>
Cc: "rhizome list" <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Rhizome Expands Editorial Scope, Hires Staff
Writers
> Hey,
>
> Great news.
>
> I have one very small request: can we remove the background image on
> the front page of Rhizome's web site? It makes scrolling really,
> really slow in Firefox on the Mac.
>
> woohoo!
>
> On 9/5/07, Marisa Olson <marisa@rhizome.org> wrote:
>> Big news! Rhizome has hired two staff writers--William Hanley and
>> Caitlin Jones--who will make daily original contributions that will
>> expand the scope of our front page news stream. The writers will serve
>> as a community amplifier, covering art, events, and ideas happening on
>> Rhizome and also across the expanding field of contemporary art that
>> engages technology.
>>
>> Hanley and Jones are respected critics who bring to Rhizome a wealth
>> of experience. Both have written for numerous international
>> publications on new media and contemporary art. Hanley was formerly an
>> editor at ArtInfo.com and Jones held a combined curatorial and
>> conservation position at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum before
>> becoming Director of Programming at the Bryce Wolkowitz Gallery.
>>
>> Together with Rhizome Editor & Curator, Marisa Olson, the staff
>> writers will be responsible for bringing Rhizome readers large doses
>> of daily criticism and coverage of local and international events. In
>> addition to their original articles, the writers will become Rhizome's
>> resident rebloggers and will share responsibility for writing Rhizome
>> News--the organization's thrice-weekly email and web-based
>> publication--with the pool of talented freelancers that has always
>> ensured a diversity of voices and subject matter on Rhizome's front
>> page.
>>
>> Rhizome's front page news stream will now include a mixture of
>> original writing--short posts and longer editorial features--alongside
>> reblogged content: blog posts from all over the web and highlights
>> from Rhizome Raw, the organization's listserv of eleven years, which
>> supports a community of new media practitioners and enthusiasts.
>>
>> Rhizome's editorial content is part of Rhizome's broader slate of
>> programs, including exhibitions, commissions, education, symposia,
>> performances, and other events, all of which strive to bring greater
>> visibility, context, and discussion to the new media art field.
>>
>> Please join us in welcoming Hanley and Jones, and please... Post some
>> comments to our new blog!
>>
>>
>> + + +
>> Marisa Olson
>> Editor & Curator
>> Rhizome at the
>> New Museum of Contemporary Art
>> +
>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>
>>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2507 (20070905) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
"Small request "show Mr.Twhid's huge ignorance.
Plant in background illustrates idea of rhizome .
I suppose Twhid in background prefer pyramid with pretty eye on the top?
Hip! Hip! Hurey!
Change your mind and PC instead idea of rhizome.
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "T.Whid" <twhid@twhid.com>
To: "Marisa Olson" <marisa@rhizome.org>
Cc: "rhizome list" <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Rhizome Expands Editorial Scope, Hires Staff
Writers
> Hey,
>
> Great news.
>
> I have one very small request: can we remove the background image on
> the front page of Rhizome's web site? It makes scrolling really,
> really slow in Firefox on the Mac.
>
> woohoo!
>
> On 9/5/07, Marisa Olson <marisa@rhizome.org> wrote:
>> Big news! Rhizome has hired two staff writers--William Hanley and
>> Caitlin Jones--who will make daily original contributions that will
>> expand the scope of our front page news stream. The writers will serve
>> as a community amplifier, covering art, events, and ideas happening on
>> Rhizome and also across the expanding field of contemporary art that
>> engages technology.
>>
>> Hanley and Jones are respected critics who bring to Rhizome a wealth
>> of experience. Both have written for numerous international
>> publications on new media and contemporary art. Hanley was formerly an
>> editor at ArtInfo.com and Jones held a combined curatorial and
>> conservation position at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum before
>> becoming Director of Programming at the Bryce Wolkowitz Gallery.
>>
>> Together with Rhizome Editor & Curator, Marisa Olson, the staff
>> writers will be responsible for bringing Rhizome readers large doses
>> of daily criticism and coverage of local and international events. In
>> addition to their original articles, the writers will become Rhizome's
>> resident rebloggers and will share responsibility for writing Rhizome
>> News--the organization's thrice-weekly email and web-based
>> publication--with the pool of talented freelancers that has always
>> ensured a diversity of voices and subject matter on Rhizome's front
>> page.
>>
>> Rhizome's front page news stream will now include a mixture of
>> original writing--short posts and longer editorial features--alongside
>> reblogged content: blog posts from all over the web and highlights
>> from Rhizome Raw, the organization's listserv of eleven years, which
>> supports a community of new media practitioners and enthusiasts.
>>
>> Rhizome's editorial content is part of Rhizome's broader slate of
>> programs, including exhibitions, commissions, education, symposia,
>> performances, and other events, all of which strive to bring greater
>> visibility, context, and discussion to the new media art field.
>>
>> Please join us in welcoming Hanley and Jones, and please... Post some
>> comments to our new blog!
>>
>>
>> + + +
>> Marisa Olson
>> Editor & Curator
>> Rhizome at the
>> New Museum of Contemporary Art
>> +
>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>
>>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2507 (20070905) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Rhizome Expands Editorial Scope, Hires Staff Writers
Great idea!
"Small request "show Mr.Twhid's huge ignorance.
Plant in background illustrates idea of rhizome .
I suppose Twhid in background prefer pyramid with pretty eye on the top?
Hip! Hip! Hurey!
Change your mind and PC instead idea of rhizome.
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "T.Whid" <twhid@twhid.com>
To: "Marisa Olson" <marisa@rhizome.org>
Cc: "rhizome list" <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Rhizome Expands Editorial Scope, Hires Staff
Writers
> Hey,
>
> Great news.
>
> I have one very small request: can we remove the background image on
> the front page of Rhizome's web site? It makes scrolling really,
> really slow in Firefox on the Mac.
>
> woohoo!
>
> On 9/5/07, Marisa Olson <marisa@rhizome.org> wrote:
>> Big news! Rhizome has hired two staff writers--William Hanley and
>> Caitlin Jones--who will make daily original contributions that will
>> expand the scope of our front page news stream. The writers will serve
>> as a community amplifier, covering art, events, and ideas happening on
>> Rhizome and also across the expanding field of contemporary art that
>> engages technology.
>>
>> Hanley and Jones are respected critics who bring to Rhizome a wealth
>> of experience. Both have written for numerous international
>> publications on new media and contemporary art. Hanley was formerly an
>> editor at ArtInfo.com and Jones held a combined curatorial and
>> conservation position at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum before
>> becoming Director of Programming at the Bryce Wolkowitz Gallery.
>>
>> Together with Rhizome Editor & Curator, Marisa Olson, the staff
>> writers will be responsible for bringing Rhizome readers large doses
>> of daily criticism and coverage of local and international events. In
>> addition to their original articles, the writers will become Rhizome's
>> resident rebloggers and will share responsibility for writing Rhizome
>> News--the organization's thrice-weekly email and web-based
>> publication--with the pool of talented freelancers that has always
>> ensured a diversity of voices and subject matter on Rhizome's front
>> page.
>>
>> Rhizome's front page news stream will now include a mixture of
>> original writing--short posts and longer editorial features--alongside
>> reblogged content: blog posts from all over the web and highlights
>> from Rhizome Raw, the organization's listserv of eleven years, which
>> supports a community of new media practitioners and enthusiasts.
>>
>> Rhizome's editorial content is part of Rhizome's broader slate of
>> programs, including exhibitions, commissions, education, symposia,
>> performances, and other events, all of which strive to bring greater
>> visibility, context, and discussion to the new media art field.
>>
>> Please join us in welcoming Hanley and Jones, and please... Post some
>> comments to our new blog!
>>
>>
>> + + +
>> Marisa Olson
>> Editor & Curator
>> Rhizome at the
>> New Museum of Contemporary Art
>> +
>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>
>>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2507 (20070905) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
"Small request "show Mr.Twhid's huge ignorance.
Plant in background illustrates idea of rhizome .
I suppose Twhid in background prefer pyramid with pretty eye on the top?
Hip! Hip! Hurey!
Change your mind and PC instead idea of rhizome.
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "T.Whid" <twhid@twhid.com>
To: "Marisa Olson" <marisa@rhizome.org>
Cc: "rhizome list" <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Rhizome Expands Editorial Scope, Hires Staff
Writers
> Hey,
>
> Great news.
>
> I have one very small request: can we remove the background image on
> the front page of Rhizome's web site? It makes scrolling really,
> really slow in Firefox on the Mac.
>
> woohoo!
>
> On 9/5/07, Marisa Olson <marisa@rhizome.org> wrote:
>> Big news! Rhizome has hired two staff writers--William Hanley and
>> Caitlin Jones--who will make daily original contributions that will
>> expand the scope of our front page news stream. The writers will serve
>> as a community amplifier, covering art, events, and ideas happening on
>> Rhizome and also across the expanding field of contemporary art that
>> engages technology.
>>
>> Hanley and Jones are respected critics who bring to Rhizome a wealth
>> of experience. Both have written for numerous international
>> publications on new media and contemporary art. Hanley was formerly an
>> editor at ArtInfo.com and Jones held a combined curatorial and
>> conservation position at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum before
>> becoming Director of Programming at the Bryce Wolkowitz Gallery.
>>
>> Together with Rhizome Editor & Curator, Marisa Olson, the staff
>> writers will be responsible for bringing Rhizome readers large doses
>> of daily criticism and coverage of local and international events. In
>> addition to their original articles, the writers will become Rhizome's
>> resident rebloggers and will share responsibility for writing Rhizome
>> News--the organization's thrice-weekly email and web-based
>> publication--with the pool of talented freelancers that has always
>> ensured a diversity of voices and subject matter on Rhizome's front
>> page.
>>
>> Rhizome's front page news stream will now include a mixture of
>> original writing--short posts and longer editorial features--alongside
>> reblogged content: blog posts from all over the web and highlights
>> from Rhizome Raw, the organization's listserv of eleven years, which
>> supports a community of new media practitioners and enthusiasts.
>>
>> Rhizome's editorial content is part of Rhizome's broader slate of
>> programs, including exhibitions, commissions, education, symposia,
>> performances, and other events, all of which strive to bring greater
>> visibility, context, and discussion to the new media art field.
>>
>> Please join us in welcoming Hanley and Jones, and please... Post some
>> comments to our new blog!
>>
>>
>> + + +
>> Marisa Olson
>> Editor & Curator
>> Rhizome at the
>> New Museum of Contemporary Art
>> +
>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>
>>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2507 (20070905) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Rhizome Expands Editorial Scope, Hires Staff Writers
Great idea!
"Small request "show Mr.Twhid's huge ignorance.
Plant in background illustrates idea of rhizome .
I suppose Twhid in background prefer pyramid with pretty eye on the top?
Hip! Hip! Hurey!
Change your mind and PC instead idea of rhizome.
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "T.Whid" <twhid@twhid.com>
To: "Marisa Olson" <marisa@rhizome.org>
Cc: "rhizome list" <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Rhizome Expands Editorial Scope, Hires Staff
Writers
> Hey,
>
> Great news.
>
> I have one very small request: can we remove the background image on
> the front page of Rhizome's web site? It makes scrolling really,
> really slow in Firefox on the Mac.
>
> woohoo!
>
> On 9/5/07, Marisa Olson <marisa@rhizome.org> wrote:
>> Big news! Rhizome has hired two staff writers--William Hanley and
>> Caitlin Jones--who will make daily original contributions that will
>> expand the scope of our front page news stream. The writers will serve
>> as a community amplifier, covering art, events, and ideas happening on
>> Rhizome and also across the expanding field of contemporary art that
>> engages technology.
>>
>> Hanley and Jones are respected critics who bring to Rhizome a wealth
>> of experience. Both have written for numerous international
>> publications on new media and contemporary art. Hanley was formerly an
>> editor at ArtInfo.com and Jones held a combined curatorial and
>> conservation position at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum before
>> becoming Director of Programming at the Bryce Wolkowitz Gallery.
>>
>> Together with Rhizome Editor & Curator, Marisa Olson, the staff
>> writers will be responsible for bringing Rhizome readers large doses
>> of daily criticism and coverage of local and international events. In
>> addition to their original articles, the writers will become Rhizome's
>> resident rebloggers and will share responsibility for writing Rhizome
>> News--the organization's thrice-weekly email and web-based
>> publication--with the pool of talented freelancers that has always
>> ensured a diversity of voices and subject matter on Rhizome's front
>> page.
>>
>> Rhizome's front page news stream will now include a mixture of
>> original writing--short posts and longer editorial features--alongside
>> reblogged content: blog posts from all over the web and highlights
>> from Rhizome Raw, the organization's listserv of eleven years, which
>> supports a community of new media practitioners and enthusiasts.
>>
>> Rhizome's editorial content is part of Rhizome's broader slate of
>> programs, including exhibitions, commissions, education, symposia,
>> performances, and other events, all of which strive to bring greater
>> visibility, context, and discussion to the new media art field.
>>
>> Please join us in welcoming Hanley and Jones, and please... Post some
>> comments to our new blog!
>>
>>
>> + + +
>> Marisa Olson
>> Editor & Curator
>> Rhizome at the
>> New Museum of Contemporary Art
>> +
>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>
>>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2507 (20070905) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
"Small request "show Mr.Twhid's huge ignorance.
Plant in background illustrates idea of rhizome .
I suppose Twhid in background prefer pyramid with pretty eye on the top?
Hip! Hip! Hurey!
Change your mind and PC instead idea of rhizome.
MANIK
----- Original Message -----
From: "T.Whid" <twhid@twhid.com>
To: "Marisa Olson" <marisa@rhizome.org>
Cc: "rhizome list" <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Rhizome Expands Editorial Scope, Hires Staff
Writers
> Hey,
>
> Great news.
>
> I have one very small request: can we remove the background image on
> the front page of Rhizome's web site? It makes scrolling really,
> really slow in Firefox on the Mac.
>
> woohoo!
>
> On 9/5/07, Marisa Olson <marisa@rhizome.org> wrote:
>> Big news! Rhizome has hired two staff writers--William Hanley and
>> Caitlin Jones--who will make daily original contributions that will
>> expand the scope of our front page news stream. The writers will serve
>> as a community amplifier, covering art, events, and ideas happening on
>> Rhizome and also across the expanding field of contemporary art that
>> engages technology.
>>
>> Hanley and Jones are respected critics who bring to Rhizome a wealth
>> of experience. Both have written for numerous international
>> publications on new media and contemporary art. Hanley was formerly an
>> editor at ArtInfo.com and Jones held a combined curatorial and
>> conservation position at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum before
>> becoming Director of Programming at the Bryce Wolkowitz Gallery.
>>
>> Together with Rhizome Editor & Curator, Marisa Olson, the staff
>> writers will be responsible for bringing Rhizome readers large doses
>> of daily criticism and coverage of local and international events. In
>> addition to their original articles, the writers will become Rhizome's
>> resident rebloggers and will share responsibility for writing Rhizome
>> News--the organization's thrice-weekly email and web-based
>> publication--with the pool of talented freelancers that has always
>> ensured a diversity of voices and subject matter on Rhizome's front
>> page.
>>
>> Rhizome's front page news stream will now include a mixture of
>> original writing--short posts and longer editorial features--alongside
>> reblogged content: blog posts from all over the web and highlights
>> from Rhizome Raw, the organization's listserv of eleven years, which
>> supports a community of new media practitioners and enthusiasts.
>>
>> Rhizome's editorial content is part of Rhizome's broader slate of
>> programs, including exhibitions, commissions, education, symposia,
>> performances, and other events, all of which strive to bring greater
>> visibility, context, and discussion to the new media art field.
>>
>> Please join us in welcoming Hanley and Jones, and please... Post some
>> comments to our new blog!
>>
>>
>> + + +
>> Marisa Olson
>> Editor & Curator
>> Rhizome at the
>> New Museum of Contemporary Art
>> +
>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>>
>>
>>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2507 (20070905) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
Fw: How deep is Rhizome stuff rascizm?
----- Original Message -----
From: manik
To: list@rhizome.org
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:59 PM
Subject: How deep is Rhizome stuff rascizm?
In last "Rhizome Digest", thread- "Where is The Rhizome", MANIK was represe=
nt with two texts under this title(and few others tight conected with this =
thread but under different names). In 'Digest' MANIK couldn't find his name.
This is proof and sad fact that MANIK was absolutely right considered Rhizo=
me stuff racism.It's not the first time that this stuff wipe MANIK's name f=
rom Digest!
Moreover this racism became institutional(economical) in Rhizome vs. MANIK=
case because previously editor Kevin McGarry order text from MANIK (abou=
t Chris Ashley.if you want you could see that essay in his blog, or in Rhiz=
ome database, and by the way Chris use parts of this essay in his lecture i=
n New Museum-'About bloging',if we remember correctly).
Kevin own 100$ to MANIK for that essay and 40$ for two text in NAN.Instead =
140$ Lauren Cornel pay to MANIK 40$ for two texts published in NAN! And she=
generous "(for) give"25$ for this year Rhizome membership to MANIK).So ins=
tead 140$ MANIK get 40$ in check, and 25 as "gift"! Where's 75$ Rhizome own=
to MANIK?
Is that your stile-steal money from membership?
And after that wipe members name from documents? What should we aspect next=
? Wipe MANIK's name from every database in Rhizome? Wipe even his cloned ob=
ject?
How deep is Rhizome stuff rascizm?
Is that just Rhizome stuff opinion and politics or they having support from=
membership? If members of Rhizome decided to throw MANIK from Raw!?.O.k.!W=
e could accept this kind of 'democracy'. If not, we demand our name and tex=
ts on Digest.
And, of course 75$!
And resignation from Lauren Cornel and Marisa Olsen.
MANIK
Monday, September 03, 2007 12:38 AM
list@rhizome.org <list@rhizome.org>
RHIZOME_RAW: WHERE IS THE RHIZOME?
As always MANIK goes far ahead with ideas and observations. Considered Rhiz=
ome front page: its look like many other Organizations front page. And cont=
ent's same as everywhere.Which mean no trace of something creative. Art-in =
one word.
But "first blood" was Pall's lucid analysis considered Raw.
We wonder how came so many well educated people could observe Raw as separa=
te phenomenon with its own rules, like something which existed in world far=
from any social and ethic /aesthetic fermentation(?!?)Global situation in =
World is very different sense day 'Berlin wall' fall ('89). Other words-thi=
s event mark day when fascism officially win after 44 years! Of course lead=
ing role was USA.Disintegrate of former USSR and bloody war in former Yugos=
lavia were only few consequences of this catastrophy.USA felt so strong to=
take obvious step against civilization and low norm with bombing Serbia '9=
9.NATO and filthy propaganda 'about Serbs ethnical cleaning'(it's just oppo=
site, about 200.000 Serbs was throw out from Kosovo that time and they stil=
l live in Serbia like 'internal displaced persons')was poor excuse for main=
ly USA interest in this area (Kosovo)where America install largest military=
base on the world,Bondsteel.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/camp-bondsteel.htm
Lowly?
But, meanwhile Russia with president Putin find out what's in The Bush.Suro=
unded with republic from former USSR(Georgija,Ukraine,Moldavia.etc)where U=
SA influence became very hard,Rusian decided to make 'bipolar' world. In fe=
w words: Amerika can't make bullshit all over the world anymore. For exampl=
e-USA need Kosovo for strategic control over south Euro-Asia, but now they =
are faced with serious threat.Russia have huge nuclear potential, and also =
they're pissed on American sense they humiliate them in '99 bombing Kosovo.=
President Gorbachov was blackmailed idiot, Jelcin was drunk full, but now =
with Putin American have big problem. War in Iraq goes bad for America-to m=
any dead people. In America slowly but surely grow unpleasant comprehension=
about limitations and serious dangerous for they own safety. In few days w=
e could refresh our memories (9/11) and ask ourselves is there any positive=
change in the world sense this date and this happening (?)We doubt.
New constellation in world strategic (count also on China and India growing=
economic power) and possible Iran atomic bomb.That look like bad dream for=
USA? And it is. In next few month America must make a mowe.USA administrat=
ion promise independent to Shiptars from Kosovo but it won't be easy like =
in '99.Why?Because,one tiny example which is main point. We think (MANIK) t=
o endure possible new NATO bombing more than 79 days as it was last time. T=
hat mean we don't care for our life's anymore. After 17 years of isolation,=
sanction, all kind of humiliation we understand it's better to die than to=
live like slave of American anti-human rule. That also mean we have nothin=
g to loose and we (following) Baudrillard's words could be very dangerous i=
n any sense of this word. America live in overrate Myth of value of life, o=
n the other side this "life "mean American life, not other people life, whi=
ch mean it's all pure rascism.Baudrillard said (paraphrase):"Live in desac=
ralised country(USA)mean that their idea of life have no support in any ot=
her area of spiritual sphere. Idea of sacrifice in Muslim religion show all=
vulnerable of American tiny "ideology"."
What are you going to doo with your precious lifes? Intercontinental missil=
e doesn't care for distance.We believe it's time to live your unconscious a=
nd start to prepare for new big war.Or to change your ideology.That'l be ha=
rd? And that's why you should think about war.
Now, when we became conscience about this unhappy and ugly world, about inj=
ustice which goes far over possibility to call mercy for people who commit =
them (no mercy) about what we could talk on Raw.
That's The Reason Rhizome_Raw's empty, pathetic, and full of nonsense calls=
for submissions.
It could be some tiny chance to talk about dangerous which came so fast and=
inexorability.
First you must forget art and ephemeral thing. In time of dangerous Muses a=
re quiet.
MANIK
__________ NOD32 2498 (20070902) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:11 PM
list@rhizome.org <list@rhizome.org>
Fw: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
Hi Max,
(IDEA OF)Tree in [post]structural way of imagination follow spatial type o=
f
visualizing mind(thinking)which could be explained as 'hyerarhical'.That
mean tree couldn't be 'rhizomatic' because in structure its repeat vertical=
,
or "pyramid "type of imagination(it's not wrong or right, it's just
fact).Vertical imagination mean, in short,base,or root(people) and
administration, leader(treetop).parallels in social structure is
dictatorship and vertical distribution of power(faschism,comunism or
neoliberal/corporative capitalism("West democracy").
Other way supposes dispersion from one point (imagined root) and endless
number of germinate. This is rhizomatic way. You couldn't direct when, how=
much, on which place and with how strong intensity grown of some idea is
going to erupt as brand new and equal (with other) worst or better.
That could be anarchy as last level of democracy ('Society of 'Anonymous
strangers') or 'retro distributions of power'-or, horizontal distribution o=
f
power (prehistory tribe with their distribution of social income and
classification of social influence).
That's why we could see image of some swamp plant on (for example) front
page of Rhizome org.We doubt that any of recent Rhizome org. stuff have
knowledge about that. We wish we are wrong.
MANIK hope that, at least, with his observation could help to recognize
problem of 'rhizomatic' on more complex way.
MANIK
PS:We are sure Curt don't mind we answer on your mail.At least all of us tr=
y
to understand what's going on here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Max Herman" <maxnmherman@hotmail.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
>
> Hi Curt,
>
> I noticed in this text by Dreher I didn't think he talked about Guattari.=
> Did he?
>
> In any case, I looked up Guattari and found out some interesting things.
>
> First off, his main book was called "1000 Plateaus" where each section wa=
s
> dated to represent a time. This reminded me frightfully of my own
> composition of "Genius 2000: a New Network." You may find it impossible=
> to believe but I never read 1000 Plateaus and only found out about its
> format today. Oh well. I also never knew that Pascal said "ineffable
> union" as the main idea of life either. But that's also not believable t=
o
> hear me say that.
>
> Anyhow, I noticed that Guattari wanted to counter the "rhizome"
> composition or form to the "arborescent" i.e. tree-like I would guess.
>
> I've also used the image of the tree in my ideas for a while, such as
> "Political Aesthetics." I think the tree aspect of aesthetics is pretty=
> good and important however so I'm curious why Guattari didn't like it.
>
> Moreover, Guattari's final Plateau is the "noosphere," which is Teilhard=
> de Chardin, who P.B. Medawar is very against, and I cited Medawar in
> Political Aesthetics also.
>
> Maybe it's relevant that computers use a tree structure more so than a
> rhizome structure? Or, sometimes they do? Maybe history goes back and=
> forth, favoring a tree sometimes or a rhizome at other times but neither=
> one is evil per se.
>
>
>
>>From: curt cloninger <curt@lab404.com>
>>Reply-To: curt cloninger <curt@lab404.com>
>>To: list@rhizome.org
>>Subject: Re: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
>>Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:41:31 -0400
>>
>>I think one way to make a listserv dangerous is by using it to make actua=
l
>>art rather than as a para-art promotional platform. This is why posts by=
>>NN, kandinsky42, mez, Dirk Vekemans, Max Herman, manik, and others have=
>>been poet[h]ically appealing to me. They presume that something is
>>happening on the list itself right now, rather than using the list to
>>dialogue about something happening somewhere else.
>>
>>Here is a perspicacious essay on conceptual software art by Thomas Dreher=
,
>>translated from German:
>>http://iasl.uni-muenchen.de/links/NAKSe.html
>>
>>Here are the accompanying illustrations in pdf form:
>>http://iasl.uni-muenchen.de/links/NAKSe.pdf (11 Mb)
>>
>>There amongst examples by Cage, George Brecht, Lewitt, and Debord is a
>>piece I posted to RAW in 2005. Dreher's online essay links to my actual=
>>rhizome post, which now takes you to a page saying that the post is
>>archived and you can no longer view it unless you pay to become a member.
>>
>>http://lyricwiki.org/The_White_Stripes:Little_Cream_Soda ,
>>Curt
>>
>>+++++++
>>
>>pall wrote:
>>
>>That's a great analogy. I definitely think people should look into
>>making Rhizome "dangerous" again.
>>+
>>-> post: list@rhizome.org
>>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>+
>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2501 (20070903) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
+
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
__________ NOD32 2502 (20070904) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
From: manik
To: list@rhizome.org
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 4:59 PM
Subject: How deep is Rhizome stuff rascizm?
In last "Rhizome Digest", thread- "Where is The Rhizome", MANIK was represe=
nt with two texts under this title(and few others tight conected with this =
thread but under different names). In 'Digest' MANIK couldn't find his name.
This is proof and sad fact that MANIK was absolutely right considered Rhizo=
me stuff racism.It's not the first time that this stuff wipe MANIK's name f=
rom Digest!
Moreover this racism became institutional(economical) in Rhizome vs. MANIK=
case because previously editor Kevin McGarry order text from MANIK (abou=
t Chris Ashley.if you want you could see that essay in his blog, or in Rhiz=
ome database, and by the way Chris use parts of this essay in his lecture i=
n New Museum-'About bloging',if we remember correctly).
Kevin own 100$ to MANIK for that essay and 40$ for two text in NAN.Instead =
140$ Lauren Cornel pay to MANIK 40$ for two texts published in NAN! And she=
generous "(for) give"25$ for this year Rhizome membership to MANIK).So ins=
tead 140$ MANIK get 40$ in check, and 25 as "gift"! Where's 75$ Rhizome own=
to MANIK?
Is that your stile-steal money from membership?
And after that wipe members name from documents? What should we aspect next=
? Wipe MANIK's name from every database in Rhizome? Wipe even his cloned ob=
ject?
How deep is Rhizome stuff rascizm?
Is that just Rhizome stuff opinion and politics or they having support from=
membership? If members of Rhizome decided to throw MANIK from Raw!?.O.k.!W=
e could accept this kind of 'democracy'. If not, we demand our name and tex=
ts on Digest.
And, of course 75$!
And resignation from Lauren Cornel and Marisa Olsen.
MANIK
Monday, September 03, 2007 12:38 AM
list@rhizome.org <list@rhizome.org>
RHIZOME_RAW: WHERE IS THE RHIZOME?
As always MANIK goes far ahead with ideas and observations. Considered Rhiz=
ome front page: its look like many other Organizations front page. And cont=
ent's same as everywhere.Which mean no trace of something creative. Art-in =
one word.
But "first blood" was Pall's lucid analysis considered Raw.
We wonder how came so many well educated people could observe Raw as separa=
te phenomenon with its own rules, like something which existed in world far=
from any social and ethic /aesthetic fermentation(?!?)Global situation in =
World is very different sense day 'Berlin wall' fall ('89). Other words-thi=
s event mark day when fascism officially win after 44 years! Of course lead=
ing role was USA.Disintegrate of former USSR and bloody war in former Yugos=
lavia were only few consequences of this catastrophy.USA felt so strong to=
take obvious step against civilization and low norm with bombing Serbia '9=
9.NATO and filthy propaganda 'about Serbs ethnical cleaning'(it's just oppo=
site, about 200.000 Serbs was throw out from Kosovo that time and they stil=
l live in Serbia like 'internal displaced persons')was poor excuse for main=
ly USA interest in this area (Kosovo)where America install largest military=
base on the world,Bondsteel.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/camp-bondsteel.htm
Lowly?
But, meanwhile Russia with president Putin find out what's in The Bush.Suro=
unded with republic from former USSR(Georgija,Ukraine,Moldavia.etc)where U=
SA influence became very hard,Rusian decided to make 'bipolar' world. In fe=
w words: Amerika can't make bullshit all over the world anymore. For exampl=
e-USA need Kosovo for strategic control over south Euro-Asia, but now they =
are faced with serious threat.Russia have huge nuclear potential, and also =
they're pissed on American sense they humiliate them in '99 bombing Kosovo.=
President Gorbachov was blackmailed idiot, Jelcin was drunk full, but now =
with Putin American have big problem. War in Iraq goes bad for America-to m=
any dead people. In America slowly but surely grow unpleasant comprehension=
about limitations and serious dangerous for they own safety. In few days w=
e could refresh our memories (9/11) and ask ourselves is there any positive=
change in the world sense this date and this happening (?)We doubt.
New constellation in world strategic (count also on China and India growing=
economic power) and possible Iran atomic bomb.That look like bad dream for=
USA? And it is. In next few month America must make a mowe.USA administrat=
ion promise independent to Shiptars from Kosovo but it won't be easy like =
in '99.Why?Because,one tiny example which is main point. We think (MANIK) t=
o endure possible new NATO bombing more than 79 days as it was last time. T=
hat mean we don't care for our life's anymore. After 17 years of isolation,=
sanction, all kind of humiliation we understand it's better to die than to=
live like slave of American anti-human rule. That also mean we have nothin=
g to loose and we (following) Baudrillard's words could be very dangerous i=
n any sense of this word. America live in overrate Myth of value of life, o=
n the other side this "life "mean American life, not other people life, whi=
ch mean it's all pure rascism.Baudrillard said (paraphrase):"Live in desac=
ralised country(USA)mean that their idea of life have no support in any ot=
her area of spiritual sphere. Idea of sacrifice in Muslim religion show all=
vulnerable of American tiny "ideology"."
What are you going to doo with your precious lifes? Intercontinental missil=
e doesn't care for distance.We believe it's time to live your unconscious a=
nd start to prepare for new big war.Or to change your ideology.That'l be ha=
rd? And that's why you should think about war.
Now, when we became conscience about this unhappy and ugly world, about inj=
ustice which goes far over possibility to call mercy for people who commit =
them (no mercy) about what we could talk on Raw.
That's The Reason Rhizome_Raw's empty, pathetic, and full of nonsense calls=
for submissions.
It could be some tiny chance to talk about dangerous which came so fast and=
inexorability.
First you must forget art and ephemeral thing. In time of dangerous Muses a=
re quiet.
MANIK
__________ NOD32 2498 (20070902) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:11 PM
list@rhizome.org <list@rhizome.org>
Fw: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
Hi Max,
(IDEA OF)Tree in [post]structural way of imagination follow spatial type o=
f
visualizing mind(thinking)which could be explained as 'hyerarhical'.That
mean tree couldn't be 'rhizomatic' because in structure its repeat vertical=
,
or "pyramid "type of imagination(it's not wrong or right, it's just
fact).Vertical imagination mean, in short,base,or root(people) and
administration, leader(treetop).parallels in social structure is
dictatorship and vertical distribution of power(faschism,comunism or
neoliberal/corporative capitalism("West democracy").
Other way supposes dispersion from one point (imagined root) and endless
number of germinate. This is rhizomatic way. You couldn't direct when, how=
much, on which place and with how strong intensity grown of some idea is
going to erupt as brand new and equal (with other) worst or better.
That could be anarchy as last level of democracy ('Society of 'Anonymous
strangers') or 'retro distributions of power'-or, horizontal distribution o=
f
power (prehistory tribe with their distribution of social income and
classification of social influence).
That's why we could see image of some swamp plant on (for example) front
page of Rhizome org.We doubt that any of recent Rhizome org. stuff have
knowledge about that. We wish we are wrong.
MANIK hope that, at least, with his observation could help to recognize
problem of 'rhizomatic' on more complex way.
MANIK
PS:We are sure Curt don't mind we answer on your mail.At least all of us tr=
y
to understand what's going on here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Max Herman" <maxnmherman@hotmail.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
>
> Hi Curt,
>
> I noticed in this text by Dreher I didn't think he talked about Guattari.=
> Did he?
>
> In any case, I looked up Guattari and found out some interesting things.
>
> First off, his main book was called "1000 Plateaus" where each section wa=
s
> dated to represent a time. This reminded me frightfully of my own
> composition of "Genius 2000: a New Network." You may find it impossible=
> to believe but I never read 1000 Plateaus and only found out about its
> format today. Oh well. I also never knew that Pascal said "ineffable
> union" as the main idea of life either. But that's also not believable t=
o
> hear me say that.
>
> Anyhow, I noticed that Guattari wanted to counter the "rhizome"
> composition or form to the "arborescent" i.e. tree-like I would guess.
>
> I've also used the image of the tree in my ideas for a while, such as
> "Political Aesthetics." I think the tree aspect of aesthetics is pretty=
> good and important however so I'm curious why Guattari didn't like it.
>
> Moreover, Guattari's final Plateau is the "noosphere," which is Teilhard=
> de Chardin, who P.B. Medawar is very against, and I cited Medawar in
> Political Aesthetics also.
>
> Maybe it's relevant that computers use a tree structure more so than a
> rhizome structure? Or, sometimes they do? Maybe history goes back and=
> forth, favoring a tree sometimes or a rhizome at other times but neither=
> one is evil per se.
>
>
>
>>From: curt cloninger <curt@lab404.com>
>>Reply-To: curt cloninger <curt@lab404.com>
>>To: list@rhizome.org
>>Subject: Re: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
>>Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:41:31 -0400
>>
>>I think one way to make a listserv dangerous is by using it to make actua=
l
>>art rather than as a para-art promotional platform. This is why posts by=
>>NN, kandinsky42, mez, Dirk Vekemans, Max Herman, manik, and others have=
>>been poet[h]ically appealing to me. They presume that something is
>>happening on the list itself right now, rather than using the list to
>>dialogue about something happening somewhere else.
>>
>>Here is a perspicacious essay on conceptual software art by Thomas Dreher=
,
>>translated from German:
>>http://iasl.uni-muenchen.de/links/NAKSe.html
>>
>>Here are the accompanying illustrations in pdf form:
>>http://iasl.uni-muenchen.de/links/NAKSe.pdf (11 Mb)
>>
>>There amongst examples by Cage, George Brecht, Lewitt, and Debord is a
>>piece I posted to RAW in 2005. Dreher's online essay links to my actual=
>>rhizome post, which now takes you to a page saying that the post is
>>archived and you can no longer view it unless you pay to become a member.
>>
>>http://lyricwiki.org/The_White_Stripes:Little_Cream_Soda ,
>>Curt
>>
>>+++++++
>>
>>pall wrote:
>>
>>That's a great analogy. I definitely think people should look into
>>making Rhizome "dangerous" again.
>>+
>>-> post: list@rhizome.org
>>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>+
>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2501 (20070903) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
+
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
__________ NOD32 2502 (20070904) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
How deep is Rhizome stuff rascizm?
In last "Rhizome Digest", thread- "Where is The Rhizome", MANIK was represe=
nt with two texts under this title(and few others tight conected with this =
thread but under different names). In 'Digest' MANIK couldn't find his name.
This is proof and sad fact that MANIK was absolutely right considered Rhizo=
me stuff racism.It's not the first time that this stuff wipe MANIK's name f=
rom Digest!
Moreover this racism became institutional(economical) in Rhizome vs. MANIK=
case because previously editor Kevin McGarry order text from MANIK (abou=
t Chris Ashley.if you want you could see that essay in his blog, or in Rhiz=
ome database, and by the way Chris use parts of this essay in his lecture i=
n New Museum-'About bloging',if we remember correctly).
Kevin own 100$ to MANIK for that essay and 40$ for two text in NAN.Instead =
140$ Lauren Cornel pay to MANIK 40$ for two texts published in NAN! And she=
generous "(for) give"25$ for this year Rhizome membership to MANIK).So ins=
tead 140$ MANIK get 40$ in check, and 25 as "gift"! Where's 75$ Rhizome own=
to MANIK?
Is that your stile-steal money from membership?
And after that wipe members name from documents? What should we aspect next=
? Wipe MANIK's name from every database in Rhizome? Wipe even his cloned ob=
ject?
How deep is Rhizome stuff rascizm?
Is that just Rhizome stuff opinion and politics or they having support from=
membership? If members of Rhizome decided to throw MANIK from Raw!?.O.k.!W=
e could accept this kind of 'democracy'. If not, we demand our name and tex=
ts on Digest.
And, of course 75$!
And resignation from Lauren Cornel and Marisa Olsen.
MANIK
Monday, September 03, 2007 12:38 AM
list@rhizome.org <list@rhizome.org>
RHIZOME_RAW: WHERE IS THE RHIZOME?
As always MANIK goes far ahead with ideas and observations. Considered Rhiz=
ome front page: its look like many other Organizations front page. And cont=
ent's same as everywhere.Which mean no trace of something creative. Art-in =
one word.
But "first blood" was Pall's lucid analysis considered Raw.
We wonder how came so many well educated people could observe Raw as separa=
te phenomenon with its own rules, like something which existed in world far=
from any social and ethic /aesthetic fermentation(?!?)Global situation in =
World is very different sense day 'Berlin wall' fall ('89). Other words-thi=
s event mark day when fascism officially win after 44 years! Of course lead=
ing role was USA.Disintegrate of former USSR and bloody war in former Yugos=
lavia were only few consequences of this catastrophy.USA felt so strong to=
take obvious step against civilization and low norm with bombing Serbia '9=
9.NATO and filthy propaganda 'about Serbs ethnical cleaning'(it's just oppo=
site, about 200.000 Serbs was throw out from Kosovo that time and they stil=
l live in Serbia like 'internal displaced persons')was poor excuse for main=
ly USA interest in this area (Kosovo)where America install largest military=
base on the world,Bondsteel.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/camp-bondsteel.htm
Lowly?
But, meanwhile Russia with president Putin find out what's in The Bush.Suro=
unded with republic from former USSR(Georgija,Ukraine,Moldavia.etc)where U=
SA influence became very hard,Rusian decided to make 'bipolar' world. In fe=
w words: Amerika can't make bullshit all over the world anymore. For exampl=
e-USA need Kosovo for strategic control over south Euro-Asia, but now they =
are faced with serious threat.Russia have huge nuclear potential, and also =
they're pissed on American sense they humiliate them in '99 bombing Kosovo.=
President Gorbachov was blackmailed idiot, Jelcin was drunk full, but now =
with Putin American have big problem. War in Iraq goes bad for America-to m=
any dead people. In America slowly but surely grow unpleasant comprehension=
about limitations and serious dangerous for they own safety. In few days w=
e could refresh our memories (9/11) and ask ourselves is there any positive=
change in the world sense this date and this happening (?)We doubt.
New constellation in world strategic (count also on China and India growing=
economic power) and possible Iran atomic bomb.That look like bad dream for=
USA? And it is. In next few month America must make a mowe.USA administrat=
ion promise independent to Shiptars from Kosovo but it won't be easy like =
in '99.Why?Because,one tiny example which is main point. We think (MANIK) t=
o endure possible new NATO bombing more than 79 days as it was last time. T=
hat mean we don't care for our life's anymore. After 17 years of isolation,=
sanction, all kind of humiliation we understand it's better to die than to=
live like slave of American anti-human rule. That also mean we have nothin=
g to loose and we (following) Baudrillard's words could be very dangerous i=
n any sense of this word. America live in overrate Myth of value of life, o=
n the other side this "life "mean American life, not other people life, whi=
ch mean it's all pure rascism.Baudrillard said (paraphrase):"Live in desac=
ralised country(USA)mean that their idea of life have no support in any ot=
her area of spiritual sphere. Idea of sacrifice in Muslim religion show all=
vulnerable of American tiny "ideology"."
What are you going to doo with your precious lifes? Intercontinental missil=
e doesn't care for distance.We believe it's time to live your unconscious a=
nd start to prepare for new big war.Or to change your ideology.That'l be ha=
rd? And that's why you should think about war.
Now, when we became conscience about this unhappy and ugly world, about inj=
ustice which goes far over possibility to call mercy for people who commit =
them (no mercy) about what we could talk on Raw.
That's The Reason Rhizome_Raw's empty, pathetic, and full of nonsense calls=
for submissions.
It could be some tiny chance to talk about dangerous which came so fast and=
inexorability.
First you must forget art and ephemeral thing. In time of dangerous Muses a=
re quiet.
MANIK
__________ NOD32 2498 (20070902) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:11 PM
list@rhizome.org <list@rhizome.org>
Fw: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
Hi Max,
(IDEA OF)Tree in [post]structural way of imagination follow spatial type o=
f
visualizing mind(thinking)which could be explained as 'hyerarhical'.That
mean tree couldn't be 'rhizomatic' because in structure its repeat vertical=
,
or "pyramid "type of imagination(it's not wrong or right, it's just
fact).Vertical imagination mean, in short,base,or root(people) and
administration, leader(treetop).parallels in social structure is
dictatorship and vertical distribution of power(faschism,comunism or
neoliberal/corporative capitalism("West democracy").
Other way supposes dispersion from one point (imagined root) and endless
number of germinate. This is rhizomatic way. You couldn't direct when, how=
much, on which place and with how strong intensity grown of some idea is
going to erupt as brand new and equal (with other) worst or better.
That could be anarchy as last level of democracy ('Society of 'Anonymous
strangers') or 'retro distributions of power'-or, horizontal distribution o=
f
power (prehistory tribe with their distribution of social income and
classification of social influence).
That's why we could see image of some swamp plant on (for example) front
page of Rhizome org.We doubt that any of recent Rhizome org. stuff have
knowledge about that. We wish we are wrong.
MANIK hope that, at least, with his observation could help to recognize
problem of 'rhizomatic' on more complex way.
MANIK
PS:We are sure Curt don't mind we answer on your mail.At least all of us tr=
y
to understand what's going on here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Max Herman" <maxnmherman@hotmail.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
>
> Hi Curt,
>
> I noticed in this text by Dreher I didn't think he talked about Guattari.=
> Did he?
>
> In any case, I looked up Guattari and found out some interesting things.
>
> First off, his main book was called "1000 Plateaus" where each section wa=
s
> dated to represent a time. This reminded me frightfully of my own
> composition of "Genius 2000: a New Network." You may find it impossible=
> to believe but I never read 1000 Plateaus and only found out about its
> format today. Oh well. I also never knew that Pascal said "ineffable
> union" as the main idea of life either. But that's also not believable t=
o
> hear me say that.
>
> Anyhow, I noticed that Guattari wanted to counter the "rhizome"
> composition or form to the "arborescent" i.e. tree-like I would guess.
>
> I've also used the image of the tree in my ideas for a while, such as
> "Political Aesthetics." I think the tree aspect of aesthetics is pretty=
> good and important however so I'm curious why Guattari didn't like it.
>
> Moreover, Guattari's final Plateau is the "noosphere," which is Teilhard=
> de Chardin, who P.B. Medawar is very against, and I cited Medawar in
> Political Aesthetics also.
>
> Maybe it's relevant that computers use a tree structure more so than a
> rhizome structure? Or, sometimes they do? Maybe history goes back and=
> forth, favoring a tree sometimes or a rhizome at other times but neither=
> one is evil per se.
>
>
>
>>From: curt cloninger <curt@lab404.com>
>>Reply-To: curt cloninger <curt@lab404.com>
>>To: list@rhizome.org
>>Subject: Re: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
>>Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:41:31 -0400
>>
>>I think one way to make a listserv dangerous is by using it to make actua=
l
>>art rather than as a para-art promotional platform. This is why posts by=
>>NN, kandinsky42, mez, Dirk Vekemans, Max Herman, manik, and others have=
>>been poet[h]ically appealing to me. They presume that something is
>>happening on the list itself right now, rather than using the list to
>>dialogue about something happening somewhere else.
>>
>>Here is a perspicacious essay on conceptual software art by Thomas Dreher=
,
>>translated from German:
>>http://iasl.uni-muenchen.de/links/NAKSe.html
>>
>>Here are the accompanying illustrations in pdf form:
>>http://iasl.uni-muenchen.de/links/NAKSe.pdf (11 Mb)
>>
>>There amongst examples by Cage, George Brecht, Lewitt, and Debord is a
>>piece I posted to RAW in 2005. Dreher's online essay links to my actual=
>>rhizome post, which now takes you to a page saying that the post is
>>archived and you can no longer view it unless you pay to become a member.
>>
>>http://lyricwiki.org/The_White_Stripes:Little_Cream_Soda ,
>>Curt
>>
>>+++++++
>>
>>pall wrote:
>>
>>That's a great analogy. I definitely think people should look into
>>making Rhizome "dangerous" again.
>>+
>>-> post: list@rhizome.org
>>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>+
>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2501 (20070903) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
+
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
__________ NOD32 2502 (20070904) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
nt with two texts under this title(and few others tight conected with this =
thread but under different names). In 'Digest' MANIK couldn't find his name.
This is proof and sad fact that MANIK was absolutely right considered Rhizo=
me stuff racism.It's not the first time that this stuff wipe MANIK's name f=
rom Digest!
Moreover this racism became institutional(economical) in Rhizome vs. MANIK=
case because previously editor Kevin McGarry order text from MANIK (abou=
t Chris Ashley.if you want you could see that essay in his blog, or in Rhiz=
ome database, and by the way Chris use parts of this essay in his lecture i=
n New Museum-'About bloging',if we remember correctly).
Kevin own 100$ to MANIK for that essay and 40$ for two text in NAN.Instead =
140$ Lauren Cornel pay to MANIK 40$ for two texts published in NAN! And she=
generous "(for) give"25$ for this year Rhizome membership to MANIK).So ins=
tead 140$ MANIK get 40$ in check, and 25 as "gift"! Where's 75$ Rhizome own=
to MANIK?
Is that your stile-steal money from membership?
And after that wipe members name from documents? What should we aspect next=
? Wipe MANIK's name from every database in Rhizome? Wipe even his cloned ob=
ject?
How deep is Rhizome stuff rascizm?
Is that just Rhizome stuff opinion and politics or they having support from=
membership? If members of Rhizome decided to throw MANIK from Raw!?.O.k.!W=
e could accept this kind of 'democracy'. If not, we demand our name and tex=
ts on Digest.
And, of course 75$!
And resignation from Lauren Cornel and Marisa Olsen.
MANIK
Monday, September 03, 2007 12:38 AM
list@rhizome.org <list@rhizome.org>
RHIZOME_RAW: WHERE IS THE RHIZOME?
As always MANIK goes far ahead with ideas and observations. Considered Rhiz=
ome front page: its look like many other Organizations front page. And cont=
ent's same as everywhere.Which mean no trace of something creative. Art-in =
one word.
But "first blood" was Pall's lucid analysis considered Raw.
We wonder how came so many well educated people could observe Raw as separa=
te phenomenon with its own rules, like something which existed in world far=
from any social and ethic /aesthetic fermentation(?!?)Global situation in =
World is very different sense day 'Berlin wall' fall ('89). Other words-thi=
s event mark day when fascism officially win after 44 years! Of course lead=
ing role was USA.Disintegrate of former USSR and bloody war in former Yugos=
lavia were only few consequences of this catastrophy.USA felt so strong to=
take obvious step against civilization and low norm with bombing Serbia '9=
9.NATO and filthy propaganda 'about Serbs ethnical cleaning'(it's just oppo=
site, about 200.000 Serbs was throw out from Kosovo that time and they stil=
l live in Serbia like 'internal displaced persons')was poor excuse for main=
ly USA interest in this area (Kosovo)where America install largest military=
base on the world,Bondsteel.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/camp-bondsteel.htm
Lowly?
But, meanwhile Russia with president Putin find out what's in The Bush.Suro=
unded with republic from former USSR(Georgija,Ukraine,Moldavia.etc)where U=
SA influence became very hard,Rusian decided to make 'bipolar' world. In fe=
w words: Amerika can't make bullshit all over the world anymore. For exampl=
e-USA need Kosovo for strategic control over south Euro-Asia, but now they =
are faced with serious threat.Russia have huge nuclear potential, and also =
they're pissed on American sense they humiliate them in '99 bombing Kosovo.=
President Gorbachov was blackmailed idiot, Jelcin was drunk full, but now =
with Putin American have big problem. War in Iraq goes bad for America-to m=
any dead people. In America slowly but surely grow unpleasant comprehension=
about limitations and serious dangerous for they own safety. In few days w=
e could refresh our memories (9/11) and ask ourselves is there any positive=
change in the world sense this date and this happening (?)We doubt.
New constellation in world strategic (count also on China and India growing=
economic power) and possible Iran atomic bomb.That look like bad dream for=
USA? And it is. In next few month America must make a mowe.USA administrat=
ion promise independent to Shiptars from Kosovo but it won't be easy like =
in '99.Why?Because,one tiny example which is main point. We think (MANIK) t=
o endure possible new NATO bombing more than 79 days as it was last time. T=
hat mean we don't care for our life's anymore. After 17 years of isolation,=
sanction, all kind of humiliation we understand it's better to die than to=
live like slave of American anti-human rule. That also mean we have nothin=
g to loose and we (following) Baudrillard's words could be very dangerous i=
n any sense of this word. America live in overrate Myth of value of life, o=
n the other side this "life "mean American life, not other people life, whi=
ch mean it's all pure rascism.Baudrillard said (paraphrase):"Live in desac=
ralised country(USA)mean that their idea of life have no support in any ot=
her area of spiritual sphere. Idea of sacrifice in Muslim religion show all=
vulnerable of American tiny "ideology"."
What are you going to doo with your precious lifes? Intercontinental missil=
e doesn't care for distance.We believe it's time to live your unconscious a=
nd start to prepare for new big war.Or to change your ideology.That'l be ha=
rd? And that's why you should think about war.
Now, when we became conscience about this unhappy and ugly world, about inj=
ustice which goes far over possibility to call mercy for people who commit =
them (no mercy) about what we could talk on Raw.
That's The Reason Rhizome_Raw's empty, pathetic, and full of nonsense calls=
for submissions.
It could be some tiny chance to talk about dangerous which came so fast and=
inexorability.
First you must forget art and ephemeral thing. In time of dangerous Muses a=
re quiet.
MANIK
__________ NOD32 2498 (20070902) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
Tuesday, September 04, 2007 2:11 PM
list@rhizome.org <list@rhizome.org>
Fw: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
Hi Max,
(IDEA OF)Tree in [post]structural way of imagination follow spatial type o=
f
visualizing mind(thinking)which could be explained as 'hyerarhical'.That
mean tree couldn't be 'rhizomatic' because in structure its repeat vertical=
,
or "pyramid "type of imagination(it's not wrong or right, it's just
fact).Vertical imagination mean, in short,base,or root(people) and
administration, leader(treetop).parallels in social structure is
dictatorship and vertical distribution of power(faschism,comunism or
neoliberal/corporative capitalism("West democracy").
Other way supposes dispersion from one point (imagined root) and endless
number of germinate. This is rhizomatic way. You couldn't direct when, how=
much, on which place and with how strong intensity grown of some idea is
going to erupt as brand new and equal (with other) worst or better.
That could be anarchy as last level of democracy ('Society of 'Anonymous
strangers') or 'retro distributions of power'-or, horizontal distribution o=
f
power (prehistory tribe with their distribution of social income and
classification of social influence).
That's why we could see image of some swamp plant on (for example) front
page of Rhizome org.We doubt that any of recent Rhizome org. stuff have
knowledge about that. We wish we are wrong.
MANIK hope that, at least, with his observation could help to recognize
problem of 'rhizomatic' on more complex way.
MANIK
PS:We are sure Curt don't mind we answer on your mail.At least all of us tr=
y
to understand what's going on here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Max Herman" <maxnmherman@hotmail.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
>
> Hi Curt,
>
> I noticed in this text by Dreher I didn't think he talked about Guattari.=
> Did he?
>
> In any case, I looked up Guattari and found out some interesting things.
>
> First off, his main book was called "1000 Plateaus" where each section wa=
s
> dated to represent a time. This reminded me frightfully of my own
> composition of "Genius 2000: a New Network." You may find it impossible=
> to believe but I never read 1000 Plateaus and only found out about its
> format today. Oh well. I also never knew that Pascal said "ineffable
> union" as the main idea of life either. But that's also not believable t=
o
> hear me say that.
>
> Anyhow, I noticed that Guattari wanted to counter the "rhizome"
> composition or form to the "arborescent" i.e. tree-like I would guess.
>
> I've also used the image of the tree in my ideas for a while, such as
> "Political Aesthetics." I think the tree aspect of aesthetics is pretty=
> good and important however so I'm curious why Guattari didn't like it.
>
> Moreover, Guattari's final Plateau is the "noosphere," which is Teilhard=
> de Chardin, who P.B. Medawar is very against, and I cited Medawar in
> Political Aesthetics also.
>
> Maybe it's relevant that computers use a tree structure more so than a
> rhizome structure? Or, sometimes they do? Maybe history goes back and=
> forth, favoring a tree sometimes or a rhizome at other times but neither=
> one is evil per se.
>
>
>
>>From: curt cloninger <curt@lab404.com>
>>Reply-To: curt cloninger <curt@lab404.com>
>>To: list@rhizome.org
>>Subject: Re: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Where is the Rhizome?
>>Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 23:41:31 -0400
>>
>>I think one way to make a listserv dangerous is by using it to make actua=
l
>>art rather than as a para-art promotional platform. This is why posts by=
>>NN, kandinsky42, mez, Dirk Vekemans, Max Herman, manik, and others have=
>>been poet[h]ically appealing to me. They presume that something is
>>happening on the list itself right now, rather than using the list to
>>dialogue about something happening somewhere else.
>>
>>Here is a perspicacious essay on conceptual software art by Thomas Dreher=
,
>>translated from German:
>>http://iasl.uni-muenchen.de/links/NAKSe.html
>>
>>Here are the accompanying illustrations in pdf form:
>>http://iasl.uni-muenchen.de/links/NAKSe.pdf (11 Mb)
>>
>>There amongst examples by Cage, George Brecht, Lewitt, and Debord is a
>>piece I posted to RAW in 2005. Dreher's online essay links to my actual=
>>rhizome post, which now takes you to a page saying that the post is
>>archived and you can no longer view it unless you pay to become a member.
>>
>>http://lyricwiki.org/The_White_Stripes:Little_Cream_Soda ,
>>Curt
>>
>>+++++++
>>
>>pall wrote:
>>
>>That's a great analogy. I definitely think people should look into
>>making Rhizome "dangerous" again.
>>+
>>-> post: list@rhizome.org
>>-> questions: info@rhizome.org
>>-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>>-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>>+
>>Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>>Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
> __________ NOD32 2501 (20070903) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
+
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
__________ NOD32 2502 (20070904) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com