Liza Sabater
Since the beginning
Works in New York, Nebraska United States of America

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DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: dream7 piece


On Monday, May 12, 2003, at 12:02 America/New_York, Lewis LaCook wrote:

> EXACTLY! it says: i am a good student, i've read mt
> baudrillard---but does nothing really to make these
> ideas concrete, to CONVINCE the user, to EMBODY the
> ideas---the ideas float above the piece, and we're
> supposed to quiver in awe at them, i suppose---

you know, and the thing is that other people did this WAAAAAAAAAAY
better before them, in books nonetheless --think of Julio Cortazar's
Rayuela (Hopscotch).

there is something about having aha! moments where your laughter or
intrigue or shock eventually makes you aware of where lies the possible
inspiration for a piece. or even if you err in that assumption, at
least you come into the work as a space for 'reading'; meaning, as a
space open to the creativity of interpretation. it's for this reason
that still to this day i am consistently amazed (as far as use of flash
goes, if we are going to stick to a medium) at how much i like MTAAs
work.

they do their work and leave you be with the art.

best,
l i z a

DISCUSSION

Re: Re: dream7 piece


gosh, i am such a dingbat --talking about flash, "Website Unseen"
is one of my favorite flash projects and i am so sorry for the factual
error of your press release. i have jonzed for years for one of those.

actually, just so the world knows it, i am going to say it again:

i am a huge fan of MTAA.

i know you don't call yourselves flash artists but as far as flash art
goes, i
likes what i sees --ferociously witty yet completely unpretentious.
real craft,
not just academic showing-off. hard to find art like that these days.

cheers,
l i z a

On Friday, May 9, 2003, at 13:29 America/New_York, t.whid wrote:

> i'll dis flash in Toto.
>
> Toto should not eat flash :-)
>
>> On Friday, May 9, 2003, at 12:46 America/New_York, curt cloninger
>> wrote:
>>
>>> To dis Flash en toto seems too tool-specific a critique.
>>
>> just a quick reply:
>>
>> NONONONONONONONONONO!
>>
>

DISCUSSION

Re: Re: dream7 piece


On Friday, May 9, 2003, at 12:46 America/New_York, curt cloninger wrote:

> To dis Flash en toto seems too tool-specific a critique.

just a quick reply:

NONONONONONONONONONO!

my intention is not to dis flash in toto. there is a lot of
commercial/non-art (or whatever you want to call it) done in Flash that
i quite like --from design portfolios to photojournals to pre-school
kids games. flash is a thing of wonder --albeit a proprietary one (and
that is a topic for a whole other thread).

> Flash does not mean web movies, although that's what it was original
> meant to make.

but, see, that's the problem ---people do look at all of what is
produced for the web as an extension of Video and Film.

i suspect that part of the problem is that this art movement was
"academized" BEFORE it actually existed as a movement. and that a lot
of these academics were coming straight out of video and performance
studies. it could be also be that people are so used to seeing a screen
and "reading" it as TV that they do not have any other way to apprehend
this new media.

all in all, i object to the art world taking Video, and using it as
the measure for ALL digital art.

best,
/ l i z a

DISCUSSION

Re: Re: dream7 piece


On Friday, May 9, 2003, at 04:18 America/New_York, Michael Szpakowski
wrote:
> There is a kind of genre of
> noninteractive-"movies"-for-the-net which don't seem
> to have the kudos amongst the big hitters of things
> like pieces about surveillance cameras and the like
> and which hence feel a bit marginal, but which I find
> consistently exciting and interesting and which I
> suspect will turn out in the big scheme of things to
> have rather more importance than they are accorded
> now.

oh but au contraire my friend, when it comes to what is considered
netart these days, movies are all the rage. i am sorry, no offense
intended to the the people behind dream7, fakeshop or even the grand
daddy of the form, josh davis, but the problem with flash is that it
has made everybody assume that what is happening on the screen is an
extension of video or movies; when in truth, for most 'heavy hitters'
it is an extension of painting, writing, adventures in bad coding and
video games. but does most of the artworld know that? nope.

david ross is one example. at the rhizome benefit he turns to napier
and says, 'nice video loop'. i just wanted to smack him upside the
head. now with the loss of steve dietz at walker arts, you will
basically see all of netart, n'importe quoi, lumped in with video
because, well, why have new media curators in this country if we
already have video curators?

as to the clicking issue --people just don't get how powerful a blank
screen is. to understand how important is the aesthetics of
interactivity one has to read Maurice Blanchot. in "Reading" (from
"The Gaze of Orpheus") he says:

The statue that is unearthed and displayed for everyone's admiration
does
not expect anything, seems rather to have been torn from its place. But
it isn't
true that the book that has been exhumed, the manuscript that is take
out of a
jar and enters the broad daylight of reading, is born all over again
through an
impressive piece of luck? What is a book that no one reads? Something
that has
not yet been written. Reading, then, is not writing the book again but
causing the
book to write itself or *be* written ---this time without the writer as
intermediary,
without anyone writing it.

the world wide web is the greatest book ever to be written by the oft
diss'ed mouse click --which is our tool for *reading* this new world.
even though you can click to kingdom come with a tv remote, you cannot
*do* anything with a tv show but to maybe read it in the Blanchot-ian
sense of the word. with the web, it is a whole different story. we have
not just text, video and sound but now tools & interfaces that allow us
to not just gaze but do and be in this virtual world.

i have a horrendously biased opinion of what is netart but, when it
comes to flash pieces, well ... it's not that the graphics or the cuts
and jumps need to be 'flashy' but, given what is possible . . . it is
kind of a let down. i mean, for pieces dealing with text i truly
believe that flash is the worst possible tool to use ----again, because
you are competing with the greatest "livre a venir".

best,
/ l i z a

DISCUSSION

Re: nyc net art happenings


How much is it worth it to you?

;-)

On Wednesday, Apr 23, 2003, at 00:25 America/New_York, Daniel
Staskievich wrote:

> who is actually Mouchette in the photos?
>