BIO
Lewis LaCook makes things. He is a programmer/poet. He likes unstable objects. He doesn't eat enough. Send him all your money.
Re: Re: NYT review of ArtBase 101
---maybe i'm overly idealistic--
--i'm not sure what a "lo-brow" thought process
is...like, "gee, my stomach's rumbling, i better
eat?"--is that lo-brow?
i'm kinda surprised so many here find the idea of
actually attempting to engage the "masses" so
repulsive--it's kinda disillusioning, actually--
there have been some good thoughts in this thread
(rob's got me thinking, and jim's ALWAYS got something
insightful to say)--from most of the reactions,
though, you would think i was advocating child
molestation--
interesting---kinda gives a new slant to any poltical
declarations i see on rhizome--
bliss
l
--- Geert Dekkers <geert@nznl.com> wrote:
> Excuse me - there is a difference between using
> lo-brow forms to make
> art and stooping to lo-brow language and/or thought
> processes -- the
> very thought that the artist should strive for some
> utopian end is a
> huge way away from popular notions about what art
> all about ....
>
>
> Cheers
> Geert
> http://nznl.com
>
>
> On 30-jun-2005, at 3:03, Lewis LaCook wrote:
>
>
> > But Pall....
> >
> > --erasing the distinction between disciplines is
> what
> > we DO--and one of those distinctions SHOULD BE the
> > gulf between "high-brow" and "low-brow" forms--to
> > cloister oneself like this is to risk
> > obsolesence...and it's politically just what any
> good
> > totalitaian regime would want--
> >
> > bliss
> > l
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Pall Thayer <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> Sarah Boxers two articles that have come up for
> >> discussion here, are an
> >> insult to new media art. They suggest that it
> >> doesn't warrant the same
> >> treatment as other art. Read some of the other
> >> articles in the same
> >> edition of NYTimes as the last article. There's
> >> music critique and dance
> >> critique. Both handled in a very professional
> >> manner. Insightful
> >> comments that suggest the authors knowledge of
> the
> >> field and give the
> >> artists themselves something to chew on. It
> doesn't
> >> matter if the
> >> critique is good or bad but a good critique from
> >> someone who doesn't
> >> seem to know what they're talking about is a lot
> >> worse than a bad
> >> critique from someone who does.
> >>
> >> Engaging the viewer:
> >> We can't expect everyone to understand what we do
> or
> >> even care. When one
> >> of my fellow teachers, a guy who likes to swap
> "guy"
> >> jokes and bet on
> >> football matches, tells me he likes a piece I've
> >> done, I'm mildly
> >> flattered but no more so than if he would
> compliment
> >> me on my new 'do
> >> (which he would of course never do for fear of
> >> appearing "gay"). Maybe
> >> he really does like it, but probably not for the
> >> same reasons that I
> >> made it. However, when a former professor of mine
> >> and highly regarded
> >> and pioneering Icelandic artist likes the same
> piece
> >> enough to suggest
> >> to his wife that she interview me for her highly
> >> respected radio show on
> >> all things cultural, I'm elated. I could care
> less
> >> whether he notices my
> >> new hairdo or not. To suggest that we try to
> bring
> >> ourselves down to
> >> some public level of understanding is absurd.
> It's
> >> like asking Einstein
> >> to teach 5th grade math. If that's how art should
> be
> >> I'll have to erase
> >> my brain and run out to the local hobby store and
> >> pick up Bob Ross' Joy
> >> of Painting tapes. At least I can be fairly sure
> >> that my fellow teacher
> >> will keep complimenting me on my work.
> >>
> >> Pall
> >>
> >> ps. Thanks Lewis. And to John Q. Public, sorry
> for
> >> making you think but
> >> you never know when it'll be back in vogue.
> >>
> >> furtherfield wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi Geert,
> >>>
> >>> If they are informed it helps, yes...
> >>>
> >>> marc
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Actually the function or role of the critic
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> (imho) should ideally be
> >>
> >>
> >>>> of the expert witness -- one who knows enough
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> about the subject at
> >>
> >>
> >>>> hand to give the casual or passing user/viewer
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> some insight into the
> >>
> >>
> >>>> background of the work and of the body of work
> in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> which the work
> >>
> >>
> >>>> finds its place....
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Geert
> >>>> http://nznl.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 29-jun-2005, at 20:06, Lewis LaCook wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Good discussion here, but....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What exactly IS the function of the critic?
> Does
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> critic preprocess the material that will
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> eventually be
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> written into the canon? Or does the critic
> sniff
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> out
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> and discuss work that the reading public would
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> be
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> interested in?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I mean, wouldn't art be more effective if it
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> actually
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> engaged users instead of requiring users to go
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> out and
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> get a degree and read looooong boring essays
> on
> >>>>> curatorial practices?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> bliss
> >>>>> l
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- furtherfield <info@furtherfield.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Lewis,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> surely it is not always the task of the art
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> itself
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> to engage people,
> >>>>>> but rather that 'may be' it is up to the
> people
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> get engaged on thier
> >>>>>> own terms when the mood takes them?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> marc
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If the art can't engage a casual user,
> what's
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>> point?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> bliss
> >>>>>>> l
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
*********************************************************************
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> ******
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> No More Movements...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lewis LaCook
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
-->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
> >
> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________
> >>>>>>> Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> >>>>>>> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on
> your
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mobile phone.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> >>>>>>> +
> >>>>>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>>>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>>>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web
> site
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> open to non-members
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> +
> >>>>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> terms set
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> out in the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> +
> >>>>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> open to non-members
> >>>>>> +
> >>>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the
> terms
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> set
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> out in the
> >>>>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
**********************************************************************
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> *****
> >>>>> No More Movements...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://
> >>>>> lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> ____________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> Yahoo! Sports
> >>>>> Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> Football
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
> >>>>> +
> >>>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/ subscribe.rhiz
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
> is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> open to non-members
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> +
> >>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the
> terms
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> set out in the
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/info/ 29.php
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> +
> >>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>
> >>
> >>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
> is
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> open to non-members
> >>
> >>
> >>>> +
> >>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> set out in the
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> +
> >>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>
> >>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>
> >>
> >>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> >>>
> >>>
> >> open to non-members
> >>
> >>
> >>> +
> >>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> >>>
> >>>
> >> set out in the
> >>
> >>
> >>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>
> >>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> _______________________________
> >> Pall Thayer
> >> artist/teacher
> >> http://www.this.is/pallit
> >> http://pallit.lhi.is/panse
> >>
> >> Lorna
> >> http://www.this.is/lorna
> >> _______________________________
> >> +
> >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> >> open to non-members
> >> +
> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set
> >> out in the
> >> Membership Agreement available online at
> >> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
**********************************************************************
>
> > *****
> > No More Movements...
> >
> > Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://
> > lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > +
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/
> > subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/
> > 29.php
> >
> >
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
***************************************************************************
No More Movements...
Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--i'm not sure what a "lo-brow" thought process
is...like, "gee, my stomach's rumbling, i better
eat?"--is that lo-brow?
i'm kinda surprised so many here find the idea of
actually attempting to engage the "masses" so
repulsive--it's kinda disillusioning, actually--
there have been some good thoughts in this thread
(rob's got me thinking, and jim's ALWAYS got something
insightful to say)--from most of the reactions,
though, you would think i was advocating child
molestation--
interesting---kinda gives a new slant to any poltical
declarations i see on rhizome--
bliss
l
--- Geert Dekkers <geert@nznl.com> wrote:
> Excuse me - there is a difference between using
> lo-brow forms to make
> art and stooping to lo-brow language and/or thought
> processes -- the
> very thought that the artist should strive for some
> utopian end is a
> huge way away from popular notions about what art
> all about ....
>
>
> Cheers
> Geert
> http://nznl.com
>
>
> On 30-jun-2005, at 3:03, Lewis LaCook wrote:
>
>
> > But Pall....
> >
> > --erasing the distinction between disciplines is
> what
> > we DO--and one of those distinctions SHOULD BE the
> > gulf between "high-brow" and "low-brow" forms--to
> > cloister oneself like this is to risk
> > obsolesence...and it's politically just what any
> good
> > totalitaian regime would want--
> >
> > bliss
> > l
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Pall Thayer <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> Sarah Boxers two articles that have come up for
> >> discussion here, are an
> >> insult to new media art. They suggest that it
> >> doesn't warrant the same
> >> treatment as other art. Read some of the other
> >> articles in the same
> >> edition of NYTimes as the last article. There's
> >> music critique and dance
> >> critique. Both handled in a very professional
> >> manner. Insightful
> >> comments that suggest the authors knowledge of
> the
> >> field and give the
> >> artists themselves something to chew on. It
> doesn't
> >> matter if the
> >> critique is good or bad but a good critique from
> >> someone who doesn't
> >> seem to know what they're talking about is a lot
> >> worse than a bad
> >> critique from someone who does.
> >>
> >> Engaging the viewer:
> >> We can't expect everyone to understand what we do
> or
> >> even care. When one
> >> of my fellow teachers, a guy who likes to swap
> "guy"
> >> jokes and bet on
> >> football matches, tells me he likes a piece I've
> >> done, I'm mildly
> >> flattered but no more so than if he would
> compliment
> >> me on my new 'do
> >> (which he would of course never do for fear of
> >> appearing "gay"). Maybe
> >> he really does like it, but probably not for the
> >> same reasons that I
> >> made it. However, when a former professor of mine
> >> and highly regarded
> >> and pioneering Icelandic artist likes the same
> piece
> >> enough to suggest
> >> to his wife that she interview me for her highly
> >> respected radio show on
> >> all things cultural, I'm elated. I could care
> less
> >> whether he notices my
> >> new hairdo or not. To suggest that we try to
> bring
> >> ourselves down to
> >> some public level of understanding is absurd.
> It's
> >> like asking Einstein
> >> to teach 5th grade math. If that's how art should
> be
> >> I'll have to erase
> >> my brain and run out to the local hobby store and
> >> pick up Bob Ross' Joy
> >> of Painting tapes. At least I can be fairly sure
> >> that my fellow teacher
> >> will keep complimenting me on my work.
> >>
> >> Pall
> >>
> >> ps. Thanks Lewis. And to John Q. Public, sorry
> for
> >> making you think but
> >> you never know when it'll be back in vogue.
> >>
> >> furtherfield wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi Geert,
> >>>
> >>> If they are informed it helps, yes...
> >>>
> >>> marc
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Actually the function or role of the critic
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> (imho) should ideally be
> >>
> >>
> >>>> of the expert witness -- one who knows enough
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> about the subject at
> >>
> >>
> >>>> hand to give the casual or passing user/viewer
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> some insight into the
> >>
> >>
> >>>> background of the work and of the body of work
> in
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> which the work
> >>
> >>
> >>>> finds its place....
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Geert
> >>>> http://nznl.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 29-jun-2005, at 20:06, Lewis LaCook wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Good discussion here, but....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What exactly IS the function of the critic?
> Does
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> critic preprocess the material that will
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> eventually be
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> written into the canon? Or does the critic
> sniff
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> out
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> and discuss work that the reading public would
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> be
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> interested in?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I mean, wouldn't art be more effective if it
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> actually
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> engaged users instead of requiring users to go
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> out and
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> get a degree and read looooong boring essays
> on
> >>>>> curatorial practices?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> bliss
> >>>>> l
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- furtherfield <info@furtherfield.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Lewis,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> surely it is not always the task of the art
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> itself
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> to engage people,
> >>>>>> but rather that 'may be' it is up to the
> people
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> to
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> get engaged on thier
> >>>>>> own terms when the mood takes them?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> marc
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If the art can't engage a casual user,
> what's
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>> point?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> bliss
> >>>>>>> l
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
*********************************************************************
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> ******
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> No More Movements...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lewis LaCook
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
-->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
> >
> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________
> >>>>>>> Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> >>>>>>> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on
> your
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> mobile phone.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> >>>>>>> +
> >>>>>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>>>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>>>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web
> site
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> open to non-members
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> +
> >>>>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> terms set
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> out in the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> +
> >>>>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> open to non-members
> >>>>>> +
> >>>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the
> terms
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> set
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>> out in the
> >>>>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
**********************************************************************
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> *****
> >>>>> No More Movements...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://
> >>>>> lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> ____________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> Yahoo! Sports
> >>>>> Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> Football
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
> >>>>> +
> >>>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/ subscribe.rhiz
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
> is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> open to non-members
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> +
> >>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the
> terms
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> set out in the
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/info/ 29.php
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> +
> >>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>
> >>
> >>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
> is
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> open to non-members
> >>
> >>
> >>>> +
> >>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> set out in the
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> +
> >>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>
> >>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>
> >>
> >>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> >>>
> >>>
> >> open to non-members
> >>
> >>
> >>> +
> >>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> >>>
> >>>
> >> set out in the
> >>
> >>
> >>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>
> >>>
> >> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> _______________________________
> >> Pall Thayer
> >> artist/teacher
> >> http://www.this.is/pallit
> >> http://pallit.lhi.is/panse
> >>
> >> Lorna
> >> http://www.this.is/lorna
> >> _______________________________
> >> +
> >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> >> open to non-members
> >> +
> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set
> >> out in the
> >> Membership Agreement available online at
> >> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
**********************************************************************
>
> > *****
> > No More Movements...
> >
> > Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://
> > lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
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> > +
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> open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/
> > 29.php
> >
> >
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
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> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
***************************************************************************
No More Movements...
Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Re: Re: NYT review of ArtBase 101
ahhhh...SANITY...
best thoughts i've read in this thread....
bliss
l
--- Jim Andrews <jim@vispo.com> wrote:
>
> > What exactly IS the function of the critic?
>
> Walt Whitman said something like 'great poetry
> demands a great audience.' in
> the sense, perhaps, that it cannot exist without a
> great audience. what is a
> great audience? i don't necessarily mean one that
> claps loud. i mean one for
> whom there is something at stake in the art. one who
> demands art as or more
> telling than the news concerning the significance of
> walking the earth. one
> who will not settle for (solely) entertainment. one
> who understands that in
> an enlightened society we are all critics, ie, we
> are all trying to come to
> some understanding of ourselves and the world around
> us, including the art.
> criticism is dialectic with others on what is
> important. judgement, as has
> been pointed out, is important, but more important
> is the examination of the
> poetics and taking it to its limits, exploring its
> implications concerning
> art and how we live and what we can accept and live
> with. judgement arises
> as a result of these things, ie, it is one of the
> ends of this sort of
> process. the critic not only alerts us about art but
> about what it means to
> be an inquiring, civilized seeker.
>
> > Does the
> > critic preprocess the material that will
> eventually be
> > written into the canon? Or does the critic sniff
> out
> > and discuss work that the reading public would be
> > interested in?
> >
> > I mean, wouldn't art be more effective if it
> actually
> > engaged users instead of requiring users to go out
> and
> > get a degree and read looooong boring essays on
> > curatorial practices?
>
> I think there's quite a bit of art out there that
> *would* engage large
> audiences if those audiences were available.
>
> I also think you're right that there is a large and
> overly influential
> academic and insular bulwark of institutional art
> that is protective of its
> position which is used to tout an art of privilege
> and monied aspiration the
> meaning of which is primarily reiteration of the
> capitalist status quo, the
> ivied american dream, art and criticism distant from
> the need for audience.
> art as confection, accessory of the upwardly mobile,
> art as the price of
> admission to the position of privilege, art as
> fascion accessory in a
> culture of brutality where torture is sanctioned in
> the highest offices. the
> high becomes low, as Pall says. A culture in which
> lip service is paid to
> 'democracy' but the show finally is of forty.
>
> ja
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
***************************************************************************
No More Movements...
Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
best thoughts i've read in this thread....
bliss
l
--- Jim Andrews <jim@vispo.com> wrote:
>
> > What exactly IS the function of the critic?
>
> Walt Whitman said something like 'great poetry
> demands a great audience.' in
> the sense, perhaps, that it cannot exist without a
> great audience. what is a
> great audience? i don't necessarily mean one that
> claps loud. i mean one for
> whom there is something at stake in the art. one who
> demands art as or more
> telling than the news concerning the significance of
> walking the earth. one
> who will not settle for (solely) entertainment. one
> who understands that in
> an enlightened society we are all critics, ie, we
> are all trying to come to
> some understanding of ourselves and the world around
> us, including the art.
> criticism is dialectic with others on what is
> important. judgement, as has
> been pointed out, is important, but more important
> is the examination of the
> poetics and taking it to its limits, exploring its
> implications concerning
> art and how we live and what we can accept and live
> with. judgement arises
> as a result of these things, ie, it is one of the
> ends of this sort of
> process. the critic not only alerts us about art but
> about what it means to
> be an inquiring, civilized seeker.
>
> > Does the
> > critic preprocess the material that will
> eventually be
> > written into the canon? Or does the critic sniff
> out
> > and discuss work that the reading public would be
> > interested in?
> >
> > I mean, wouldn't art be more effective if it
> actually
> > engaged users instead of requiring users to go out
> and
> > get a degree and read looooong boring essays on
> > curatorial practices?
>
> I think there's quite a bit of art out there that
> *would* engage large
> audiences if those audiences were available.
>
> I also think you're right that there is a large and
> overly influential
> academic and insular bulwark of institutional art
> that is protective of its
> position which is used to tout an art of privilege
> and monied aspiration the
> meaning of which is primarily reiteration of the
> capitalist status quo, the
> ivied american dream, art and criticism distant from
> the need for audience.
> art as confection, accessory of the upwardly mobile,
> art as the price of
> admission to the position of privilege, art as
> fascion accessory in a
> culture of brutality where torture is sanctioned in
> the highest offices. the
> high becomes low, as Pall says. A culture in which
> lip service is paid to
> 'democracy' but the show finally is of forty.
>
> ja
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
***************************************************************************
No More Movements...
Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
Re: Re: NYT review of ArtBase 101
But Pall....
--erasing the distinction between disciplines is what
we DO--and one of those distinctions SHOULD BE the
gulf between "high-brow" and "low-brow" forms--to
cloister oneself like this is to risk
obsolesence...and it's politically just what any good
totalitaian regime would want--
bliss
l
--- Pall Thayer <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:
> Sarah Boxers two articles that have come up for
> discussion here, are an
> insult to new media art. They suggest that it
> doesn't warrant the same
> treatment as other art. Read some of the other
> articles in the same
> edition of NYTimes as the last article. There's
> music critique and dance
> critique. Both handled in a very professional
> manner. Insightful
> comments that suggest the authors knowledge of the
> field and give the
> artists themselves something to chew on. It doesn't
> matter if the
> critique is good or bad but a good critique from
> someone who doesn't
> seem to know what they're talking about is a lot
> worse than a bad
> critique from someone who does.
>
> Engaging the viewer:
> We can't expect everyone to understand what we do or
> even care. When one
> of my fellow teachers, a guy who likes to swap "guy"
> jokes and bet on
> football matches, tells me he likes a piece I've
> done, I'm mildly
> flattered but no more so than if he would compliment
> me on my new 'do
> (which he would of course never do for fear of
> appearing "gay"). Maybe
> he really does like it, but probably not for the
> same reasons that I
> made it. However, when a former professor of mine
> and highly regarded
> and pioneering Icelandic artist likes the same piece
> enough to suggest
> to his wife that she interview me for her highly
> respected radio show on
> all things cultural, I'm elated. I could care less
> whether he notices my
> new hairdo or not. To suggest that we try to bring
> ourselves down to
> some public level of understanding is absurd. It's
> like asking Einstein
> to teach 5th grade math. If that's how art should be
> I'll have to erase
> my brain and run out to the local hobby store and
> pick up Bob Ross' Joy
> of Painting tapes. At least I can be fairly sure
> that my fellow teacher
> will keep complimenting me on my work.
>
> Pall
>
> ps. Thanks Lewis. And to John Q. Public, sorry for
> making you think but
> you never know when it'll be back in vogue.
>
> furtherfield wrote:
> > Hi Geert,
> >
> > If they are informed it helps, yes...
> >
> > marc
> >
> >> Actually the function or role of the critic
> (imho) should ideally be
> >> of the expert witness -- one who knows enough
> about the subject at
> >> hand to give the casual or passing user/viewer
> some insight into the
> >> background of the work and of the body of work in
> which the work
> >> finds its place....
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Geert
> >> http://nznl.com
> >>
> >>
> >> On 29-jun-2005, at 20:06, Lewis LaCook wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Good discussion here, but....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What exactly IS the function of the critic? Does
> the
> >>> critic preprocess the material that will
> eventually be
> >>> written into the canon? Or does the critic sniff
> out
> >>> and discuss work that the reading public would
> be
> >>> interested in?
> >>>
> >>> I mean, wouldn't art be more effective if it
> actually
> >>> engaged users instead of requiring users to go
> out and
> >>> get a degree and read looooong boring essays on
> >>> curatorial practices?
> >>>
> >>> bliss
> >>> l
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- furtherfield <info@furtherfield.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Lewis,
> >>>>
> >>>> surely it is not always the task of the art
> itself
> >>>> to engage people,
> >>>> but rather that 'may be' it is up to the people
> to
> >>>> get engaged on thier
> >>>> own terms when the mood takes them?
> >>>>
> >>>> marc
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> If the art can't engage a casual user, what's
> the
> >>>>> point?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> bliss
> >>>>> l
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
>
*********************************************************************
>
> >>>> ******
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> No More Movements...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lewis LaCook
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
>
-->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________
> >>>>> Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> >>>>> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> mobile phone.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> >>>>> +
> >>>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
> is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> open to non-members
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> +
> >>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the
> terms set
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> out in the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> +
> >>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
> is
> >>>> open to non-members
> >>>> +
> >>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set
> >>>> out in the
> >>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
**********************************************************************
>
> >>> *****
> >>> No More Movements...
> >>>
> >>> Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://
> >>> lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> ____________________________________________________
> >>> Yahoo! Sports
> >>> Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy
> Football
> >>> http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
> >>> +
> >>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/ subscribe.rhiz
> >>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> >>> +
> >>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set out in the
> >>> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/ 29.php
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> +
> >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> >> +
> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set out in the
> >> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >
> > +
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
> --
> _______________________________
> Pall Thayer
> artist/teacher
> http://www.this.is/pallit
> http://pallit.lhi.is/panse
>
> Lorna
> http://www.this.is/lorna
> _______________________________
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
***************************************************************************
No More Movements...
Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--erasing the distinction between disciplines is what
we DO--and one of those distinctions SHOULD BE the
gulf between "high-brow" and "low-brow" forms--to
cloister oneself like this is to risk
obsolesence...and it's politically just what any good
totalitaian regime would want--
bliss
l
--- Pall Thayer <palli@pallit.lhi.is> wrote:
> Sarah Boxers two articles that have come up for
> discussion here, are an
> insult to new media art. They suggest that it
> doesn't warrant the same
> treatment as other art. Read some of the other
> articles in the same
> edition of NYTimes as the last article. There's
> music critique and dance
> critique. Both handled in a very professional
> manner. Insightful
> comments that suggest the authors knowledge of the
> field and give the
> artists themselves something to chew on. It doesn't
> matter if the
> critique is good or bad but a good critique from
> someone who doesn't
> seem to know what they're talking about is a lot
> worse than a bad
> critique from someone who does.
>
> Engaging the viewer:
> We can't expect everyone to understand what we do or
> even care. When one
> of my fellow teachers, a guy who likes to swap "guy"
> jokes and bet on
> football matches, tells me he likes a piece I've
> done, I'm mildly
> flattered but no more so than if he would compliment
> me on my new 'do
> (which he would of course never do for fear of
> appearing "gay"). Maybe
> he really does like it, but probably not for the
> same reasons that I
> made it. However, when a former professor of mine
> and highly regarded
> and pioneering Icelandic artist likes the same piece
> enough to suggest
> to his wife that she interview me for her highly
> respected radio show on
> all things cultural, I'm elated. I could care less
> whether he notices my
> new hairdo or not. To suggest that we try to bring
> ourselves down to
> some public level of understanding is absurd. It's
> like asking Einstein
> to teach 5th grade math. If that's how art should be
> I'll have to erase
> my brain and run out to the local hobby store and
> pick up Bob Ross' Joy
> of Painting tapes. At least I can be fairly sure
> that my fellow teacher
> will keep complimenting me on my work.
>
> Pall
>
> ps. Thanks Lewis. And to John Q. Public, sorry for
> making you think but
> you never know when it'll be back in vogue.
>
> furtherfield wrote:
> > Hi Geert,
> >
> > If they are informed it helps, yes...
> >
> > marc
> >
> >> Actually the function or role of the critic
> (imho) should ideally be
> >> of the expert witness -- one who knows enough
> about the subject at
> >> hand to give the casual or passing user/viewer
> some insight into the
> >> background of the work and of the body of work in
> which the work
> >> finds its place....
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Geert
> >> http://nznl.com
> >>
> >>
> >> On 29-jun-2005, at 20:06, Lewis LaCook wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Good discussion here, but....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> What exactly IS the function of the critic? Does
> the
> >>> critic preprocess the material that will
> eventually be
> >>> written into the canon? Or does the critic sniff
> out
> >>> and discuss work that the reading public would
> be
> >>> interested in?
> >>>
> >>> I mean, wouldn't art be more effective if it
> actually
> >>> engaged users instead of requiring users to go
> out and
> >>> get a degree and read looooong boring essays on
> >>> curatorial practices?
> >>>
> >>> bliss
> >>> l
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- furtherfield <info@furtherfield.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Lewis,
> >>>>
> >>>> surely it is not always the task of the art
> itself
> >>>> to engage people,
> >>>> but rather that 'may be' it is up to the people
> to
> >>>> get engaged on thier
> >>>> own terms when the mood takes them?
> >>>>
> >>>> marc
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> If the art can't engage a casual user, what's
> the
> >>>>> point?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> bliss
> >>>>> l
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
>
*********************************************************************
>
> >>>> ******
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> No More Movements...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lewis LaCook
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
>
-->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________
> >>>>> Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> >>>>> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> mobile phone.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> >>>>> +
> >>>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
> is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> open to non-members
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> +
> >>>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the
> terms set
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> out in the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> +
> >>>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>>> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >>>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site
> is
> >>>> open to non-members
> >>>> +
> >>>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set
> >>>> out in the
> >>>> Membership Agreement available online at
> >>>> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
**********************************************************************
>
> >>> *****
> >>> No More Movements...
> >>>
> >>> Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://
> >>> lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> ____________________________________________________
> >>> Yahoo! Sports
> >>> Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy
> Football
> >>> http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
> >>> +
> >>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/ subscribe.rhiz
> >>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >>> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> >>> +
> >>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set out in the
> >>> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/ 29.php
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> +
> >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> >> +
> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set out in the
> >> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >>
> >
> > +
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
> --
> _______________________________
> Pall Thayer
> artist/teacher
> http://www.this.is/pallit
> http://pallit.lhi.is/panse
>
> Lorna
> http://www.this.is/lorna
> _______________________________
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
***************************************************************************
No More Movements...
Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
__________________________________________________
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Re: Re: NYT review of ArtBase 101
no, not referring to your essay---referring to the
general trend of networked art lately---
honestly...networked art is still far too young to
make too many generalizations about it---that it is
periodically declared dead is a sign that somewhere in
the mix is a general uneasiness about just what this
art is---really, rock star games is beating our
asses--ALL game development companies are--and I use
more skill in commercial development than I actually
see in most net works--And I can't blame the public at
large for not being interested in it, which is why I'm
defending this critique(no, it wasn't a deep critique,
and you, Marisa, would have done much much
better;-})---
When I look at net.art right now, I see a great
paucity of actual content--and a great deal of
"demo-head"("Wow! Look what I can make this data
do!")--sometimes these trends are interesting (i'm
enamored of pall thayer's auto-drawn, for
example)--but we're not going to move forward in any
way until we stop trying to be sol lewitt, until we
can blend our obsession with our tools with the
possibility of saying something about our lives---
i call for a romantic net.art....
bliss
l
--- "Marisa S. Olson" <marisaso@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lewis LaCook <llacook@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >[...] What exactly IS the function of the critic?
> Does the
> > critic preprocess the material that will
> eventually be
> > written into the canon?
>
> yes. hopefully.
>
> > Or does the critic sniff out
> > and discuss work that the reading public would be
> > interested in?
>
> yes. hopefully.
>
> > I mean, wouldn't art be more effective if it
> actually
> > engaged users instead of requiring users to go out
> and
> > get a degree and read looooong boring essays on
> > curatorial practices?
>
> I'm not sure, now, if this is a critique of Rhizome
> Artbase 101, of
> Sarah Boxer's review, or of my "looooong boring
> essay," but... The art
> should not require that the general public "get a
> degree," nor should
> the criticism. But the two are still separate and
> the critic should be
> unpacking the work, helping the viewer to consider
> it from various
> viewpoints, talking about what works/doesn't in the
> pieces (and why!),
> contextualizing it.
>
> The public can choose whether to look at art and
> they can choose
> whether to read criticism or criticism of criticism.
> I think it was
> Rob who pointed out that it's their loss if they
> don't do this. But
> when I make the choice to read what a so-called
> critic has to say
> about a piece, it's because I want to know something
> more. This is
> what the practice of criticism is all about.
> Otherwise it's just
> writing, and that writing has its place--in the
> lifestyle section...
> (Of which i am a big fan, don't get me wrong!)
>
> Marisa
>
***************************************************************************
No More Movements...
Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
general trend of networked art lately---
honestly...networked art is still far too young to
make too many generalizations about it---that it is
periodically declared dead is a sign that somewhere in
the mix is a general uneasiness about just what this
art is---really, rock star games is beating our
asses--ALL game development companies are--and I use
more skill in commercial development than I actually
see in most net works--And I can't blame the public at
large for not being interested in it, which is why I'm
defending this critique(no, it wasn't a deep critique,
and you, Marisa, would have done much much
better;-})---
When I look at net.art right now, I see a great
paucity of actual content--and a great deal of
"demo-head"("Wow! Look what I can make this data
do!")--sometimes these trends are interesting (i'm
enamored of pall thayer's auto-drawn, for
example)--but we're not going to move forward in any
way until we stop trying to be sol lewitt, until we
can blend our obsession with our tools with the
possibility of saying something about our lives---
i call for a romantic net.art....
bliss
l
--- "Marisa S. Olson" <marisaso@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lewis LaCook <llacook@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >[...] What exactly IS the function of the critic?
> Does the
> > critic preprocess the material that will
> eventually be
> > written into the canon?
>
> yes. hopefully.
>
> > Or does the critic sniff out
> > and discuss work that the reading public would be
> > interested in?
>
> yes. hopefully.
>
> > I mean, wouldn't art be more effective if it
> actually
> > engaged users instead of requiring users to go out
> and
> > get a degree and read looooong boring essays on
> > curatorial practices?
>
> I'm not sure, now, if this is a critique of Rhizome
> Artbase 101, of
> Sarah Boxer's review, or of my "looooong boring
> essay," but... The art
> should not require that the general public "get a
> degree," nor should
> the criticism. But the two are still separate and
> the critic should be
> unpacking the work, helping the viewer to consider
> it from various
> viewpoints, talking about what works/doesn't in the
> pieces (and why!),
> contextualizing it.
>
> The public can choose whether to look at art and
> they can choose
> whether to read criticism or criticism of criticism.
> I think it was
> Rob who pointed out that it's their loss if they
> don't do this. But
> when I make the choice to read what a so-called
> critic has to say
> about a piece, it's because I want to know something
> more. This is
> what the practice of criticism is all about.
> Otherwise it's just
> writing, and that writing has its place--in the
> lifestyle section...
> (Of which i am a big fan, don't get me wrong!)
>
> Marisa
>
***************************************************************************
No More Movements...
Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
Re: Re: NYT review of ArtBase 101
Good discussion here, but....
What exactly IS the function of the critic? Does the
critic preprocess the material that will eventually be
written into the canon? Or does the critic sniff out
and discuss work that the reading public would be
interested in?
I mean, wouldn't art be more effective if it actually
engaged users instead of requiring users to go out and
get a degree and read looooong boring essays on
curatorial practices?
bliss
l
--- furtherfield <info@furtherfield.org> wrote:
> Hi Lewis,
>
> surely it is not always the task of the art itself
> to engage people,
> but rather that 'may be' it is up to the people to
> get engaged on thier
> own terms when the mood takes them?
>
> marc
>
>
> >If the art can't engage a casual user, what's the
> >point?
> >
> >bliss
> >l
> >
> >
> >
>
>***************************************************************************
> >No More Movements...
> >
> >Lewis LaCook
>
-->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> mobile phone.
> >http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> >+
> >-> post: list@rhizome.org
> >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >-> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >-> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> >+
> >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> >Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
***************************************************************************
No More Movements...
Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
What exactly IS the function of the critic? Does the
critic preprocess the material that will eventually be
written into the canon? Or does the critic sniff out
and discuss work that the reading public would be
interested in?
I mean, wouldn't art be more effective if it actually
engaged users instead of requiring users to go out and
get a degree and read looooong boring essays on
curatorial practices?
bliss
l
--- furtherfield <info@furtherfield.org> wrote:
> Hi Lewis,
>
> surely it is not always the task of the art itself
> to engage people,
> but rather that 'may be' it is up to the people to
> get engaged on thier
> own terms when the mood takes them?
>
> marc
>
>
> >If the art can't engage a casual user, what's the
> >point?
> >
> >bliss
> >l
> >
> >
> >
>
>***************************************************************************
> >No More Movements...
> >
> >Lewis LaCook
>
-->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> mobile phone.
> >http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> >+
> >-> post: list@rhizome.org
> >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >-> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >-> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> >+
> >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> >Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> -> visit: on Fridays the Rhizome.org web site is
> open to non-members
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
***************************************************************************
No More Movements...
Lewis LaCook -->Poet-Programmer|||http://lewislacook.corporatepa.com/|||
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com