ARTBASE (1)
PORTFOLIO (1)
BIO
The McElroys are a husband and wife collaborative artist, technology, and business team who bring significant artistic, technology and community development skills to Corporate Performance Artists. Joseph, is a graduate of Computer Science from Duke University and a former team leader at IBM. He has been a CEO of several companies, and has been responsible for raising $2 million to fund a startup company called EveryDayPrint.com, which while part of the dot-com boom and bust, he managed to bring to profitability and which still survives to this day.
Donna was an operations manager and PR specialist in the firms they have started together. She has recently been credited by several business leaders in the Bronx as being "top spokesperson for the Bronx." She is active in many community development projects, such as participating on the Board of the Bruckner Arts and Antique District, and working to promote many Bronx activities through an online newsletter called Cupcake Kaleidoscope.
Joseph was the leader of the Open Source Sig for the New York Software Industry Association. And was track co-chair for Open Source at the 2001 New York Software Industry Summit. He was on the advisory board for PostgreSql, Inc - the leading Open Source Database and has had articles published by Lutris Technologies and Open Magazine on Open Source business models and technology solutions. He is a database expert with extensive Fortune 500 experience. Among other awards, he won an IBM Division Award for Technical Excellence.
From magazine "Open" issue September 2001 - "The McElroys kick open the doors of old business models and capitalize on what they believe." The McElroys have achieved re-known as Open Source visionaries with interviews by Interactive Week, Infoworld, Fortune Technology, Open magazine, and others. Joseph and Donna make no claims of divine insight, but in review by Lewis Lacock, it is said, "that this dynamic duo of art are the closest things we have to true shamans today". They are doing their best to pursue the knowledge to support such claims someday.
HIGHLIGHTS
* Achieved reputation as Open Source visionarys with interviews by Interactive Week, Infoworld, Fortune Technology, Open magazine among others.
* National Columnist on Money Matters for Gather.com.
* Judge for the Advanced Technical Categories of the Emmys.
* Successfully raised $2 million funding for startup.
* Successfully built and sold two technology businesses.
* First Entry into the Multimedia wing of the Museum of Computer Art.
* Artwork collected by the Library at Cornell University.
* Artwork in the collection of Rhizome.org.
* Developed first ever Exhibition Catalog completely on CD Rom. Done for Alternative Museum. Reviewed by New York Times.
* Selected to attend first ever Summer Institute for Performance Art at The Kitchen in NYC.
* IBM Division Award for Technical Excellence.
* Various academic, mathematic and scholarship awards. Attended Duke University on a full scholarship in mathematics.
* Poetry published in various journals. Art exhibited in museum shows.
* Certificate of Artistic Excellence from Congressman Jose Serrano.
* Recognized by Bronx Borough President Aldofo Carrion for contributions to the community.
Donna was an operations manager and PR specialist in the firms they have started together. She has recently been credited by several business leaders in the Bronx as being "top spokesperson for the Bronx." She is active in many community development projects, such as participating on the Board of the Bruckner Arts and Antique District, and working to promote many Bronx activities through an online newsletter called Cupcake Kaleidoscope.
Joseph was the leader of the Open Source Sig for the New York Software Industry Association. And was track co-chair for Open Source at the 2001 New York Software Industry Summit. He was on the advisory board for PostgreSql, Inc - the leading Open Source Database and has had articles published by Lutris Technologies and Open Magazine on Open Source business models and technology solutions. He is a database expert with extensive Fortune 500 experience. Among other awards, he won an IBM Division Award for Technical Excellence.
From magazine "Open" issue September 2001 - "The McElroys kick open the doors of old business models and capitalize on what they believe." The McElroys have achieved re-known as Open Source visionaries with interviews by Interactive Week, Infoworld, Fortune Technology, Open magazine, and others. Joseph and Donna make no claims of divine insight, but in review by Lewis Lacock, it is said, "that this dynamic duo of art are the closest things we have to true shamans today". They are doing their best to pursue the knowledge to support such claims someday.
HIGHLIGHTS
* Achieved reputation as Open Source visionarys with interviews by Interactive Week, Infoworld, Fortune Technology, Open magazine among others.
* National Columnist on Money Matters for Gather.com.
* Judge for the Advanced Technical Categories of the Emmys.
* Successfully raised $2 million funding for startup.
* Successfully built and sold two technology businesses.
* First Entry into the Multimedia wing of the Museum of Computer Art.
* Artwork collected by the Library at Cornell University.
* Artwork in the collection of Rhizome.org.
* Developed first ever Exhibition Catalog completely on CD Rom. Done for Alternative Museum. Reviewed by New York Times.
* Selected to attend first ever Summer Institute for Performance Art at The Kitchen in NYC.
* IBM Division Award for Technical Excellence.
* Various academic, mathematic and scholarship awards. Attended Duke University on a full scholarship in mathematics.
* Poetry published in various journals. Art exhibited in museum shows.
* Certificate of Artistic Excellence from Congressman Jose Serrano.
* Recognized by Bronx Borough President Aldofo Carrion for contributions to the community.
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Joseph McElroy
Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:
Ying and Yang are two clowns hanging out in a Bejiing disco. It doesn't matter
how you want to define them, or how they have been defined in the past. They
are proproganda for an ancient worldview...I reject them...perhaps I would be
interested in a dynamic variation that grew up recently. You, however, think
you have found reality in failed viewpoints of the past. This just makes you a
failure, ineffective, and ridiculous.
What especially makes you seem ludicrous is choosing to resort to "YOUR FAT" in
your attempt to hurt me. Are you going to shoot spitballs at me next? It is
arrogant male children like you, who are sure they know REALITY, who are
destroyers of reality.
If you want to show yourself as something other than an arrogant FOLLOWER,
demonstrate a NEW evolution of practice/theory. You are not a creator, just a
destroyer and follower.
And it is obvious that you are a bigot - note - the ONLY slang term you used in
your eloquent description of MALE LEADERS was the derogatory term for humans of
African descent.
You are an incredibly UGLY person.
joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
call me 646 279 2309
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER CUPCAKEKALEIDOSCOPE - send email to
CupcakeKleidoscope-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:
> The ignorant ape bleated again furthermore posturing in self-importance:
>
> > YANG MALE ENERGY - opinionated, stubborn, and single-minded
> > YIN FEMALE ENGERGY - open, optimistic, collaborative, and imagitive
>
> That is not what yang energy is, babycheeks.
> Yin energy is not "open, optimistic, collaborative, and imaginative."
> Spare us your infantilistic western delusions on the matter.
> Optimism for example is "yang". Not Yin.
> Neither "yin" nor "yang" are "collaborative".
> They are mechanistic in seeking out "balancing out".
> Yin will seek out yang. yang will seek out yin.
> Automatically. Consciousness is something else,
> and it is consciousness (which is energetic MALE,
> we hope your panties are twisting :) is the only
> thing capable of "collaboration". Labora, or "work"
> is conscious labor.
>
> Open your New Yorker arse, and take a look at a forest.
> It is yin and yang energies in balance. They are not
> "collaborating". They lack consciousness. Only humans
> (in your visible range) have the capacity for
> co-laboration. Not only that, but they have a BRIGHTRIGHT TO IT.
>
> And what THIS means is that Co-LABORRATION or Co-EXISTENCE
> is a matter of MUTUAL CONSENT. There are no "forced relationships".
> There are no "forced friendships". We are not ALL AUTOMATICALLY
> "friends".
>
> With regards to your comment below: we are NOT afraid of you.
> Quit making up idiotic stories in order to come out the "tough winner".
> You're simply UNWANTED. REJECTED. And you absolutely cannot
> STAND the idea of being REJECTED. All of your 'saving the world'
> "mountain" stories are the ridiculous delusions of a desperate
> infantile 35something sub-mediocre twit.
>
> Allow us to restate: you're rejected. No. Negative. Nein.
> Incapable. Garbage material. Understand?
>
> Most obviously, conscious humans who have any awareness
> of these concepts are vital, active, healthy, and NOT FAT.
> This is not an insult by the way. Mastery of these forces
> shows outwardly. Mastery also shows itself in energetic
> balance, creativity proper, consciousness, incredible awareness,
> understanding of universal laws, eating properly,
> self-responsibility, and self-discipline, etc.
>
> You personally are rigid, infantile, impotent, imbalanced,
> irresponsible, self-important, egotistical, and fat.
> And NOT WANTED :)
>
> Mastery and understanding of yin and yang energies produces awareness
> that humans get ill due to imbalances with their environment and within
> themselves. Including, that arrogance is at the basis of most "modern"
> diseases of the immune system. It includes awareness that damaging
> others, and attempting to knee-jerk and titillate their egos produces
> DAMAGE to one's own nervous and immune systems, in addition to theirs--
> a concept to which you reacted with the infantile 'you're a christian
> zealot, why don't you tell me how I'll go to hell".
>
> When faced with the FACT that what we wrote is NOT christian, you simply
> sidestepped the issue with more "symbolic" gibberish, instead of
> accounting for your actions and admiting you are an imbecile.
> Which you are.
>
> It also produces awareness of not taking out your stress on others.
> You attempt to use "art" and your audience as "punching bags".
> Awareness that anger, anxiety, and similar other "weak side"
> that humanity is trained to knee-jerk from rather than overcome
> are major impediments for development of consciousness,
> artistic creativity and sensibility, imagination, and individual
> energetic and physical well being.
>
> Anger for example is one of the major causes for certain types of
> cancer. Your "luvly" "performances" "teach" humans about their
> "weak" side--including teaching them to "let go of mastery of
> their own psycho-sexual mechanisms" which is what YOU mean
> by "optimistic and collaborative". Your idea of YIN is
> sugar-fed wide-eyed naive "optimistic" yin sheep who
> are all about enjoying being broken, energetically fed on,
> and fucked in the ass.
>
> You attempt to spread your delusional psychoses onto others
> including the myopic idea of "males who cause problems".
> There are none such.
>
> MALES of the ENERGETIC CONFIGURATION WE SPOKE OF
> (which is not YANG, and we will NOT tell you what it is
> because we want your arrogance and ignorance thoroughly
> apparent and on display at this point) are the PROPER
> LEADERS of humanity. THEY are the ONES capable of creative
> mythologizing. They are the ones holding the THREAD of
> the MYTH of human (spirits & souls) in their *power*
> and they are the only ONES capable of leading.
>
> You are NOT capable of doing this: nor are you capable,
> qualified or in any manner near the capacity of judging
> what they should do. And your penis obsession hasn't
> got anything to do with you. They are OBJECTIVELY
> more powerful than YOU, annd no matter how much you
> try you will NEVER be in their POSITION, you will
> never be "equal" and you will not ble able to DO what they Do.
> Being infantile you fancy this "related" to animalistic
> idiocy, and your tiny penis feels thtreatened and unimportant--
> which it is. That's why it is YOU who is threatened by them and feel a
> need to "eliminate" them, so you make up idiocies about them being a
> "problem". That is why you havea problem with authority as well.
> A problem with FALSE authority requires DISCERNMENT, and
> dear babycheeks YIN cannot DISCERN. Unconscious YIN is PASSIVE.
> ALL IS THE SAME to unconscious yin.
>
> Furthermore, YIN AND YANG are RELIGIOUS CONCEPTS.
> Introduced to YOU by ENERGETIC MALE AUTHORITIES.
> The same sort of MALE AUTHORITIES which according to you "cause
> problems" :)
>
> Again, you reveal your idiotic passive-aggressiveness.
> You're against religion, uneducated, unqualofied, but
> you're going to be "of service" by teaching all about yin and yang,
> love, brotherhood, (insert christian values).
> Peace brothers. Just believe in Joseph.
> He's un-religious. He's a personality cultist.
> Everyone be yin and undiscerning and worship at his
> infantile sex obsession.
>
> You're against powerful males who "cause problems"
> yet you attempt to posture as a "mountain.
>
> You're exactly and precisely: a con-man.
>
> > Who would like someone that is all YANG?
>
> Nobody is ALL YANG HERE babycheeks.
> Nobody is CAPABLe of being ALL YANG.
> Again the "expert" reveals his ignorance.
>
> You have a problem with the PRESENCE OF YANG.
> You want humans to be exclusively YIN,
> so that they can be SUSCEPTIBLE TO SUGGESTION (juzt believe, you'll
> make nice hosts for Joseph's vampiric ego), unfocused (optimistic),
> undiscriminating (collaborative) and helpless (bleat).
> YIN is the balancing grounds for YANG babycheeks.
> There is no STRONG, ACTIVE YANG without properly balanced yin.
> And your "problema" is that we are balanced.
> That we are balanced, and INDEPENDENT.
> Your idea of "collaboration" is better rephrased as CODEPENDENCY.
> You "need" collaboration because you cant stand on your own
> for shit. Collaboration is only_ between balanced INDIVIDUALS.
> Everything else is codependent energetic parasitism.
>
> There are NO males who make any problems. Your insistence
> that males make problems and attempts to rally "troops"
> under that flag is very much like a white middle class
> racist politician who wants to rally the troops against them niggers.
> Cause you see, THEM NIGGERS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> Or how about this? THEM ISLAM FUNDAMENTALISTS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> THEM CHRISTIANS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> THEM AMERICANS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> THEM JEWS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> THEM NAZIS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> THEM SHEEP ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
>
> You know what babycheeks? Just like it's a natural occurrence
> to have males and females, it's a natural occurrence to
> have MALE LEADERS. Also some humans are better suited
> for collaboration, some are BORN (energetically) to be loners.
> Leaders are not loners by the way.
> A conscious "community" is that which can accommodate ALL
> *natural* types without attempting to break them by fitting
> them into one single mould.
>
> It's alsoa community in which sub-mediocre males don't attempt
> to get attention and "power" by passive-aggressive righteous
> savior beating in the chest.
>
> Lest you didn't hear it the first time around: you have no artistic
> talent. You are no mountain. Nobody is afraid of you. You're an idiot.
>
> You're not great. You're not creative. You're not optimistic.
> You're not collaborative. You are not imaginative.
>
> You're delusional. Arrogant. Impotent. Attention seeking.
>
> IMPINGING. In one word: a WEED.
>
> And this is WHY You're being treateda s all WEEDS deserve to be.
>
> xo.
Ying and Yang are two clowns hanging out in a Bejiing disco. It doesn't matter
how you want to define them, or how they have been defined in the past. They
are proproganda for an ancient worldview...I reject them...perhaps I would be
interested in a dynamic variation that grew up recently. You, however, think
you have found reality in failed viewpoints of the past. This just makes you a
failure, ineffective, and ridiculous.
What especially makes you seem ludicrous is choosing to resort to "YOUR FAT" in
your attempt to hurt me. Are you going to shoot spitballs at me next? It is
arrogant male children like you, who are sure they know REALITY, who are
destroyers of reality.
If you want to show yourself as something other than an arrogant FOLLOWER,
demonstrate a NEW evolution of practice/theory. You are not a creator, just a
destroyer and follower.
And it is obvious that you are a bigot - note - the ONLY slang term you used in
your eloquent description of MALE LEADERS was the derogatory term for humans of
African descent.
You are an incredibly UGLY person.
joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
call me 646 279 2309
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER CUPCAKEKALEIDOSCOPE - send email to
CupcakeKleidoscope-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:
> The ignorant ape bleated again furthermore posturing in self-importance:
>
> > YANG MALE ENERGY - opinionated, stubborn, and single-minded
> > YIN FEMALE ENGERGY - open, optimistic, collaborative, and imagitive
>
> That is not what yang energy is, babycheeks.
> Yin energy is not "open, optimistic, collaborative, and imaginative."
> Spare us your infantilistic western delusions on the matter.
> Optimism for example is "yang". Not Yin.
> Neither "yin" nor "yang" are "collaborative".
> They are mechanistic in seeking out "balancing out".
> Yin will seek out yang. yang will seek out yin.
> Automatically. Consciousness is something else,
> and it is consciousness (which is energetic MALE,
> we hope your panties are twisting :) is the only
> thing capable of "collaboration". Labora, or "work"
> is conscious labor.
>
> Open your New Yorker arse, and take a look at a forest.
> It is yin and yang energies in balance. They are not
> "collaborating". They lack consciousness. Only humans
> (in your visible range) have the capacity for
> co-laboration. Not only that, but they have a BRIGHTRIGHT TO IT.
>
> And what THIS means is that Co-LABORRATION or Co-EXISTENCE
> is a matter of MUTUAL CONSENT. There are no "forced relationships".
> There are no "forced friendships". We are not ALL AUTOMATICALLY
> "friends".
>
> With regards to your comment below: we are NOT afraid of you.
> Quit making up idiotic stories in order to come out the "tough winner".
> You're simply UNWANTED. REJECTED. And you absolutely cannot
> STAND the idea of being REJECTED. All of your 'saving the world'
> "mountain" stories are the ridiculous delusions of a desperate
> infantile 35something sub-mediocre twit.
>
> Allow us to restate: you're rejected. No. Negative. Nein.
> Incapable. Garbage material. Understand?
>
> Most obviously, conscious humans who have any awareness
> of these concepts are vital, active, healthy, and NOT FAT.
> This is not an insult by the way. Mastery of these forces
> shows outwardly. Mastery also shows itself in energetic
> balance, creativity proper, consciousness, incredible awareness,
> understanding of universal laws, eating properly,
> self-responsibility, and self-discipline, etc.
>
> You personally are rigid, infantile, impotent, imbalanced,
> irresponsible, self-important, egotistical, and fat.
> And NOT WANTED :)
>
> Mastery and understanding of yin and yang energies produces awareness
> that humans get ill due to imbalances with their environment and within
> themselves. Including, that arrogance is at the basis of most "modern"
> diseases of the immune system. It includes awareness that damaging
> others, and attempting to knee-jerk and titillate their egos produces
> DAMAGE to one's own nervous and immune systems, in addition to theirs--
> a concept to which you reacted with the infantile 'you're a christian
> zealot, why don't you tell me how I'll go to hell".
>
> When faced with the FACT that what we wrote is NOT christian, you simply
> sidestepped the issue with more "symbolic" gibberish, instead of
> accounting for your actions and admiting you are an imbecile.
> Which you are.
>
> It also produces awareness of not taking out your stress on others.
> You attempt to use "art" and your audience as "punching bags".
> Awareness that anger, anxiety, and similar other "weak side"
> that humanity is trained to knee-jerk from rather than overcome
> are major impediments for development of consciousness,
> artistic creativity and sensibility, imagination, and individual
> energetic and physical well being.
>
> Anger for example is one of the major causes for certain types of
> cancer. Your "luvly" "performances" "teach" humans about their
> "weak" side--including teaching them to "let go of mastery of
> their own psycho-sexual mechanisms" which is what YOU mean
> by "optimistic and collaborative". Your idea of YIN is
> sugar-fed wide-eyed naive "optimistic" yin sheep who
> are all about enjoying being broken, energetically fed on,
> and fucked in the ass.
>
> You attempt to spread your delusional psychoses onto others
> including the myopic idea of "males who cause problems".
> There are none such.
>
> MALES of the ENERGETIC CONFIGURATION WE SPOKE OF
> (which is not YANG, and we will NOT tell you what it is
> because we want your arrogance and ignorance thoroughly
> apparent and on display at this point) are the PROPER
> LEADERS of humanity. THEY are the ONES capable of creative
> mythologizing. They are the ones holding the THREAD of
> the MYTH of human (spirits & souls) in their *power*
> and they are the only ONES capable of leading.
>
> You are NOT capable of doing this: nor are you capable,
> qualified or in any manner near the capacity of judging
> what they should do. And your penis obsession hasn't
> got anything to do with you. They are OBJECTIVELY
> more powerful than YOU, annd no matter how much you
> try you will NEVER be in their POSITION, you will
> never be "equal" and you will not ble able to DO what they Do.
> Being infantile you fancy this "related" to animalistic
> idiocy, and your tiny penis feels thtreatened and unimportant--
> which it is. That's why it is YOU who is threatened by them and feel a
> need to "eliminate" them, so you make up idiocies about them being a
> "problem". That is why you havea problem with authority as well.
> A problem with FALSE authority requires DISCERNMENT, and
> dear babycheeks YIN cannot DISCERN. Unconscious YIN is PASSIVE.
> ALL IS THE SAME to unconscious yin.
>
> Furthermore, YIN AND YANG are RELIGIOUS CONCEPTS.
> Introduced to YOU by ENERGETIC MALE AUTHORITIES.
> The same sort of MALE AUTHORITIES which according to you "cause
> problems" :)
>
> Again, you reveal your idiotic passive-aggressiveness.
> You're against religion, uneducated, unqualofied, but
> you're going to be "of service" by teaching all about yin and yang,
> love, brotherhood, (insert christian values).
> Peace brothers. Just believe in Joseph.
> He's un-religious. He's a personality cultist.
> Everyone be yin and undiscerning and worship at his
> infantile sex obsession.
>
> You're against powerful males who "cause problems"
> yet you attempt to posture as a "mountain.
>
> You're exactly and precisely: a con-man.
>
> > Who would like someone that is all YANG?
>
> Nobody is ALL YANG HERE babycheeks.
> Nobody is CAPABLe of being ALL YANG.
> Again the "expert" reveals his ignorance.
>
> You have a problem with the PRESENCE OF YANG.
> You want humans to be exclusively YIN,
> so that they can be SUSCEPTIBLE TO SUGGESTION (juzt believe, you'll
> make nice hosts for Joseph's vampiric ego), unfocused (optimistic),
> undiscriminating (collaborative) and helpless (bleat).
> YIN is the balancing grounds for YANG babycheeks.
> There is no STRONG, ACTIVE YANG without properly balanced yin.
> And your "problema" is that we are balanced.
> That we are balanced, and INDEPENDENT.
> Your idea of "collaboration" is better rephrased as CODEPENDENCY.
> You "need" collaboration because you cant stand on your own
> for shit. Collaboration is only_ between balanced INDIVIDUALS.
> Everything else is codependent energetic parasitism.
>
> There are NO males who make any problems. Your insistence
> that males make problems and attempts to rally "troops"
> under that flag is very much like a white middle class
> racist politician who wants to rally the troops against them niggers.
> Cause you see, THEM NIGGERS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> Or how about this? THEM ISLAM FUNDAMENTALISTS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> THEM CHRISTIANS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> THEM AMERICANS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> THEM JEWS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> THEM NAZIS ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
> THEM SHEEP ARE CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
>
> You know what babycheeks? Just like it's a natural occurrence
> to have males and females, it's a natural occurrence to
> have MALE LEADERS. Also some humans are better suited
> for collaboration, some are BORN (energetically) to be loners.
> Leaders are not loners by the way.
> A conscious "community" is that which can accommodate ALL
> *natural* types without attempting to break them by fitting
> them into one single mould.
>
> It's alsoa community in which sub-mediocre males don't attempt
> to get attention and "power" by passive-aggressive righteous
> savior beating in the chest.
>
> Lest you didn't hear it the first time around: you have no artistic
> talent. You are no mountain. Nobody is afraid of you. You're an idiot.
>
> You're not great. You're not creative. You're not optimistic.
> You're not collaborative. You are not imaginative.
>
> You're delusional. Arrogant. Impotent. Attention seeking.
>
> IMPINGING. In one word: a WEED.
>
> And this is WHY You're being treateda s all WEEDS deserve to be.
>
> xo.
Re:
Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:
> Yo, Joseph-man.
Call me Jo-Man the Barbarian please. Action figures available soon.
> When will you stop knee-jerking from your absolute fright of death?
stop projecting your fears upon me
> from) (did you know that shamans are SELECTED by the SPIRIT at BIRTH? that
> it is VERY OFTEN HEREDITARY? and that SHAMANS are not EQUAL to all other
> humans? (without meaning better or worse)).
Yes, Yes - lets give reasons for royalty. You are an inbred bastard aren't
you? That explains everything. SHAMANS, MALE LEADERS, YOU are all con artists
justifying self-proclaimed differences with a mishmash of historical trivia and
propoganda.
joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
call me 646 279 2309
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER CUPCAKEKALEIDOSCOPE - send email to
CupcakeKleidoscope-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Let's see if we can do this "properly":
>
>
>
> Spastically masturbating in public?
>
> Death is not "evil" Joseph-san.
>
> When are you going to stop waving it about like a boogey-man?
>
> By the way, did you know that "teaching" humans to "love the man
> who kills them" triggers a pre-encoded mechanism which causes
> their body to "signal" shutdown and start the process of natural death?
>
> Didja? Didja know that this kind of "teaching" and them behaving
> masochistically makes their body orient itself towards stopping
> to produce life-force and becoming inflexible and unconducive
> and constructed? Didja know that it leads to premature aging
> and many "unnatural diseases" whicha re failures of the
> immune (DEFENSE) system? We suppose all humans should just SHUT
> THAT DOWN in order to please mr. Joseph, the murderous idiotic brute?
>
> Didja know that getting in touch with their "infantile emotionality,"
> making them angry, taking out your stress on them, etc, causes damages
> which result in delayed cancer, heart attacks, etc?
>
> Didja oh great MASTEr of whether humans should be YIN OR YANG,
> and oh great SHAMAN (masters of immune system defense among other things,
> and IMMUNE SYSTEM Of the ENERGETIC BODY which is where memetics is stolen
> from) (did you know that shamans are SELECTED by the SPIRIT at BIRTH? that
> it is VERY OFTEN HEREDITARY? and that SHAMANS are not EQUAL to all other
> humans? (without meaning better or worse)).
>
> Didja know that a shaman is a MALE LEADER? :)
>
> We'd like to see you squirm + stew in your own imbecility.
>
>
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> Yo, Joseph-man.
Call me Jo-Man the Barbarian please. Action figures available soon.
> When will you stop knee-jerking from your absolute fright of death?
stop projecting your fears upon me
> from) (did you know that shamans are SELECTED by the SPIRIT at BIRTH? that
> it is VERY OFTEN HEREDITARY? and that SHAMANS are not EQUAL to all other
> humans? (without meaning better or worse)).
Yes, Yes - lets give reasons for royalty. You are an inbred bastard aren't
you? That explains everything. SHAMANS, MALE LEADERS, YOU are all con artists
justifying self-proclaimed differences with a mishmash of historical trivia and
propoganda.
joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
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> Let's see if we can do this "properly":
>
>
>
> Spastically masturbating in public?
>
> Death is not "evil" Joseph-san.
>
> When are you going to stop waving it about like a boogey-man?
>
> By the way, did you know that "teaching" humans to "love the man
> who kills them" triggers a pre-encoded mechanism which causes
> their body to "signal" shutdown and start the process of natural death?
>
> Didja? Didja know that this kind of "teaching" and them behaving
> masochistically makes their body orient itself towards stopping
> to produce life-force and becoming inflexible and unconducive
> and constructed? Didja know that it leads to premature aging
> and many "unnatural diseases" whicha re failures of the
> immune (DEFENSE) system? We suppose all humans should just SHUT
> THAT DOWN in order to please mr. Joseph, the murderous idiotic brute?
>
> Didja know that getting in touch with their "infantile emotionality,"
> making them angry, taking out your stress on them, etc, causes damages
> which result in delayed cancer, heart attacks, etc?
>
> Didja oh great MASTEr of whether humans should be YIN OR YANG,
> and oh great SHAMAN (masters of immune system defense among other things,
> and IMMUNE SYSTEM Of the ENERGETIC BODY which is where memetics is stolen
> from) (did you know that shamans are SELECTED by the SPIRIT at BIRTH? that
> it is VERY OFTEN HEREDITARY? and that SHAMANS are not EQUAL to all other
> humans? (without meaning better or worse)).
>
> Didja know that a shaman is a MALE LEADER? :)
>
> We'd like to see you squirm + stew in your own imbecility.
>
>
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
Re: yawn...
YES!
joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
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Quoting "marc.garrett" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org>:
> Blankyawn...
>
> This list has been hijacked by ugly anti- creative nihilists...
>
> Many members hide behind their comps just watching, not wanting to get
> involved because their 'supposed' valid reputations might get tarnished - yet
> by not acting against such an abomination, being complicit in not taking any
> action, except pressing the 'Block Sender' on their email clients; they
> contribute by ignoring the actual problem & sweeping it under the virtual
> carpet. This place has become a battle ground and I do not wish to be part of
> a place that silenty hopes that it will go away.
>
> All those who are actually bothered by what has been happening, please use
> your voice for achange - for now is the time to change this dispicable
> problem.
>
> I have been using my 'block sender' occassionally, in deleted mails I have
> noticed the horrible shouts/spams by 'Karei', which has been a constant and
> vicious, consecutive list of attacking anyone 'they' fancy to offend, without
> any comeback. Rhizome's solution is for us all to block such activity - but I
> cannot ignore the stench underneath.
>
> Action needs to be taken 'NOW'. I know that everyone else other than the
> obvious killers of joy that is; are fed up with all this depressing non-stop
> hate parade, who wish to take part in mutual sharing of ideas on their own
> terms. Everyone I have spoken to agrees of whom frequents this list; but
> where are they now, where have they been, to stand up against such ugliness?
>
> I long for the imaginative beauty that NN used to splurge on here in
> comparison with the non-stop anti-creative hate that we are all forced to
> consume. At least NN was a lateral thinker - 'Karei', is repetative and
> offers no work of their own, putting down anyone who wishes for more than
> 'emptiness'.
>
> 'Kill their void'
>
> respect to all who are wishing the list to be a better place...
>
> marc
joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
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Quoting "marc.garrett" <marc.garrett@furtherfield.org>:
> Blankyawn...
>
> This list has been hijacked by ugly anti- creative nihilists...
>
> Many members hide behind their comps just watching, not wanting to get
> involved because their 'supposed' valid reputations might get tarnished - yet
> by not acting against such an abomination, being complicit in not taking any
> action, except pressing the 'Block Sender' on their email clients; they
> contribute by ignoring the actual problem & sweeping it under the virtual
> carpet. This place has become a battle ground and I do not wish to be part of
> a place that silenty hopes that it will go away.
>
> All those who are actually bothered by what has been happening, please use
> your voice for achange - for now is the time to change this dispicable
> problem.
>
> I have been using my 'block sender' occassionally, in deleted mails I have
> noticed the horrible shouts/spams by 'Karei', which has been a constant and
> vicious, consecutive list of attacking anyone 'they' fancy to offend, without
> any comeback. Rhizome's solution is for us all to block such activity - but I
> cannot ignore the stench underneath.
>
> Action needs to be taken 'NOW'. I know that everyone else other than the
> obvious killers of joy that is; are fed up with all this depressing non-stop
> hate parade, who wish to take part in mutual sharing of ideas on their own
> terms. Everyone I have spoken to agrees of whom frequents this list; but
> where are they now, where have they been, to stand up against such ugliness?
>
> I long for the imaginative beauty that NN used to splurge on here in
> comparison with the non-stop anti-creative hate that we are all forced to
> consume. At least NN was a lateral thinker - 'Karei', is repetative and
> offers no work of their own, putting down anyone who wishes for more than
> 'emptiness'.
>
> 'Kill their void'
>
> respect to all who are wishing the list to be a better place...
>
> marc
Re: Re: An editing job for the ages
Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:
> Aie! Soul-less! Hey look, it's a preacher.
> An expert on souls!
I would accept marc's position on souls before yours. Your ridicule
demonstrates the weakness of your arguments.
joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
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Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, marc.garrett wrote:
>
> > It's soulless and you know it...
>
> Aie! Soul-less! Hey look, it's a preacher.
> An expert on souls!
>
> Let us see:
>
> 1. country bumpkin
> 2. attempting to trigger humans cheaply on emotional levels
> 3. tossing about kitsch religiosity
> 4. a penchant for charismatic leaders
>
> Wow. You don't have a thing for Hitler by any chance, do you?
>
> > tiz true - excitement happens - but death is a good reason for such
> emotion,
> > don't you think?
>
> Sure is. The ape loves spastic masturbation.
>
> Halleluja!
>
> Does NN have a monopoly on selling cheap Russian Icons?
>
> Or is it ok to start a good business selling such?
>
> Together with some alchy to soothe the soul? Ach!
> Aie! Soul-less! Hey look, it's a preacher.
> An expert on souls!
I would accept marc's position on souls before yours. Your ridicule
demonstrates the weakness of your arguments.
joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
call me 646 279 2309
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Quoting "-IID42 Kandinskij @27+" <death@zaphod.terminal.org>:
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, marc.garrett wrote:
>
> > It's soulless and you know it...
>
> Aie! Soul-less! Hey look, it's a preacher.
> An expert on souls!
>
> Let us see:
>
> 1. country bumpkin
> 2. attempting to trigger humans cheaply on emotional levels
> 3. tossing about kitsch religiosity
> 4. a penchant for charismatic leaders
>
> Wow. You don't have a thing for Hitler by any chance, do you?
>
> > tiz true - excitement happens - but death is a good reason for such
> emotion,
> > don't you think?
>
> Sure is. The ape loves spastic masturbation.
>
> Halleluja!
>
> Does NN have a monopoly on selling cheap Russian Icons?
>
> Or is it ok to start a good business selling such?
>
> Together with some alchy to soothe the soul? Ach!
Re: Re: An editing job for the ages
while marc's original post was a little on the excited side (I had read this
information before), his point is valid that the US government/press either
through plan or accident (what sells?) edit much information that should be
available to the US public. It seems convenient that the info lost often would
be unattractive to the Bush agenda. I sit here hearing the same argument on
NPR as I write.
Wally, while you seem sincere in your passion, you also seem more determined to
quash opposing viewpoints than in constructive dialog. Multiple worldviews are
GOOD and impossible to quash without a lot of death happening.
joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
call me 646 279 2309
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Quoting Wally Keeler <poetburo@sympatico.ca>:
> Blank
> From: marc.garrett
>
> Thanks for enlarging the text (extra big) to the scale equivalent of trying
> to shout genuine dissent down - you can feel proud.
> So I see you enlarged your own. Get a clue -- I enlarged it just to
> differentiate my response from yours. It is a crock assumption to assert
> that the motivation was to "shout genuine dissent down." You're still whining
> aren't you?
>
> Do you really think that war is just about the function of killing?
>
> Did I really think that? Get a grip. I made no such assertion. You feed on
> assumptions and presumptions -- and you're wrong for the most part. You are
> not a very good master of creating strawmen.
>
> No, other systems have to be put in place to create the right climate for
> physical action, an invasion of another culture. You must of realized that,
> that process started before 9-11 surely. I think you do, I also think that
> you do not care (personally) ...if you did, compassion would of won you over.
> There is something that you are not being honest about.
>
> Prove it -- or remove your peurile kangeroo kourt to a more appropoetic
> forum: listserv; fiction not facts.
>
> stopping people declaring their views will not create a better planet to
> live on, stopping killing people might do. You say it is simplistic,
>
> I didn't say it at all. I described your initial missive as a breathless
> bloated clone of National Inquirer tabloidism. But then again, National
> Inquiorer style is to make up assertions that have no basis in fact -- just
> as y ou are doing in this exchange.
>
> you are very wrong. It is obvious, not simplistic (wrong words); I am
> interested in the governments of this shaky, muddy ball called earth, to do
> something honorable for a change. And stop funding despots that come back to
> haunt them and the civilians of this world (don't you?), now that is
> simplistic, basic in fact, even stupid, sounds screwy to me, and to a lot
> other people as well. Contrary to what the American government & the Uk's are
> government shoving down everyone's throat.
> There's other government's also shoving shit down throats -- you might
> benefit by spreading your cause instead of the dime-a-dozen US-UK makes all
> other nations' governments bad. Get real.
>
> It's soulless and you know it...
>
> Much like your breathless bloated National Inquirer-like report.
>
>
>
> Hi Wally,
> Are you glad that there is a war happening?
>
> A ludicrous question, all too typical of shallowness. The answer is NO,
> I am not glad about it. In any event, I am unaware that it is happening. When
> did it start? I just checked the news, and as far as I can make out, it is
> still in the "rattling sabres" stage.
>
> Cuz death is what's going to happen, justify that...
>
> The matter was not about justifying death. (And just for the record --
> I am against capital punishment) The matter was your bloated and breathless
> propaganda. You might get better results for your concerns if you asserted
> your case without resorting to National Inquirer tabloid tactics.
>
>
> "An editing job for the ages..." What a fantastic bit of bloated
> hyperbole -- makes for great National Inquirer tabloid propaganda.
>
> And, wow, a historian friend who breathlessly claims it will be
> published tomorrow -- but for those who can hardly wait, I reproduce an AP
> report of December 18 last which reports the issue as a known story line.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: marc.garrett
> An editing job for the ages: corporations that aided the Iraqis
>
> As a professional editor, I was particularly curious about the
> "editing" the administration was doing on the 12,000 page Iraqi report on
> their weapons of mass destruction. Rumors have been swirling. The Americans
> claim, of course, that they were vetting the report for WMD-making
> instructions before passing it on to the roiling mass of non-veto nations in
> the Security Council. Others have suggested that part of what was being
> excised was a record of the corporations that once aided Iraq in achieving
> WMD capabilities.
> Now, a historian friend whom I trust has passed the following
> message on to me:
>
>
> "To be reported in tomorrow's Die Tageszeitung (Berlin daily),
> here is a list of US and European corporations that allegedly supplied Iraq
> with nuclear, chemical, biological, and missile technology, prior to 1991.
> The list comes, it seems, from the original Iraqi report to the Security
> Council.
> http://www.nationinstitute.org/tomdispatch/index.mhtml?pid#3
> Iraq Used Many Suppliers for Nuke Program
> By DAFNA LINZER Associated Press Writer
>
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) - Dozens of suppliers, most in Europe, the
> United States and Japan, provided the components and know-how Saddam Hussein
> needed to build an atomic bomb, according to Iraq's 1996 accounting of its
> nuclear program.
>
> The secret declaration, shown to The Associated Press, is virtually
> identical to the one submitted to U.N. inspectors on Dec. 7, according to
> U.N. officials. The reports have not been made public to prevent nuclear
> know-how from falling into the wrong hands and also to protect the names of
> companies that wittingly or unwittingly supplied Iraq with the means to make
> nuclear weapons.
>
> U.N. officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the only
> difference between the two reports is that the latest has a 300-page section
> in Arabic on civilian nuclear programs and a slightly larger typeface that
> stretches it to 2,100 pages.
>
> That foreign companies helped Iraq has long been known, and some of
> them have been identified before, but the Iraqi accounting adds up to the
> most exhaustive list so far of companies involved.
>
> Iraq's report says the equipment was either sold or made by more
> than 30 German companies, 10 American companies, 11 British companies and a
> handful of Swiss, Japanese, Italian, French, Swedish and Brazilian firms. It
> says more than 30 countries supplied its nuclear program.
>
> It details nuclear efforts from the early 1980s to the Gulf War and
> contains diagrams, plans and test results in uranium enrichment, detonation,
> implosion testing and warhead construction.
>
> In one chapter, Iraq admits to having a pilot plan in September
> 1990 - one month after it invaded Kuwait - to increase the enrichment of
> recovered uranium to 93 percent using centrifuges. The process is a
> complicated extraction and purification method that at full scale requires
> thousands of connected, high speed centrifuges.
>
> According to Iraq's report, the most detailed accounting of its
> former nuclear weapons program, it was also pursuing electromagnetic isotope
> separation as another method to enrich uranium, the key ingredient for an
> atomic explosion.
>
> The Iraqis had everything they needed to make nuclear weapons, said
> Gary Milhollin, director of the Wisconsin Project, a Washington-based think
> tank on nuclear arms control. "They weren't missing any components or any
> knowledge," he said in a phone interview. "It was simply a matter of time."
>
> Milhollin said that had it not been for the 1991 Gulf War, Iraq
> would have had nuclear weapons by now, thanks to hundreds of suppliers who
> sold it an impressive array of equipment and expertise, often with their
> government's approval and without being aware of the ultimate purpose.
> According to the Iraqi accounting, induction and electron beam furnaces,
> which could be used in shaping uranium parts for an atomic bomb, came from
> Consarc Corp. of Rancocas, N.J. The company says the items were never
> delivered, however.
>
> Newport Corp. of Irvine, Calif., is listed as a supplier of optical
> fiber, a product with uses ranging from communications to medical equipment.
> But the company said it doesn't carry the model listed in the declaration.
>
> EEV Inc., based outside New York City, is listed as a supplier of a
> thyratron, which the company says is used in medical imaging equipment. It
> could not immediately verify the sale of the item.
>
> Motorola Inc., was listed as the seller of fast photodetectors, but
> company spokeswoman Jennifer Weyrauch said she found no record to support the
> claim. "A photodetector product is not part of Motorola's current portfolio."
>
> Most of the sales were legal and often made with the knowledge of
> governments. In 1985-90, the U.S. Commerce Department, for example, licensed
> $1.5 billion in sales to Iraq of American technology with potential military
> uses. Iraq was then getting Western support for its war against Iran, which
> at the time was regarded as the main threat to stability in the oil-rich Gulf
> region.
>
> But inspectors have discovered over the years that Iraq often
> obtained supplies through middlemen or by lying to companies about the
> products' intended use.
>
> "It was useful in the past and it will be useful in the future to
> go to companies and ask them questions," said Ewen Buchanan, spokesman for
> the U.N. weapons inspectors. While the Iraqi declaration provides a lot of
> important information, the companies can often give inspectors insight into
> the real extent of Iraq's programs.
>
> Since the Gulf War, dozens of companies have either admitted to
> sales or were prosecuted in Europe for helping arm Iraq. Several no longer
> exist.
>
> "Revealing company names can discourage other companies from
> getting involved in deals with countries like Iraq where you don't really
> know the true end-use of your products," said David Albright, an American
> nuclear expert and a weapons inspector in 1996.
>
> According to Iraq's accounting, the real help came from German
> experts and companies, in particular H&H Metallform, which sold the Iraqis
> old designs for centrifuges.
>
> Cooperation with H&H "was fruitful and it was called upon to render
> technical assistance and consultations in various activities," Iraq wrote in
> its nuclear declaration.
>
> In 1993, German courts found two H&H employees guilty of violating
> export law and sentenced them to over two years in prison for working with
> Iraq.
>
> German companies allegedly involved in other aspects of Iraq's
> former weapons programs were named in a report Tuesday in the German daily
> Die Tag. The report also said companies such as DaimlerChrysler, Siemens and
> Preussag sold items to Iraq which were diverted to the weapons programs.
>
> The companies either declined to comment on the report, or said the
> deliveries had nothing to do with weapons, such as trucks or auto parts from
> DaimlerChrysler.
>
> Some of Iraq's nuclear materials were destroyed during previous
> U.N. inspections, and Iraq is now banned from repurchasing much of it. But
> reconnaissance photos released by the Bush administration in October indicate
> the Iraqis have been rebuilding sites previously used for nuclear
> development. A recent U.S. intelligence report says Iraq may have nuclear
> weapons by 2010.
>
> Iraq acknowledged to inspectors last month that it was importing
> aluminum tubes which it said were for conventional weapons. The Bush
> administration said the tubes could be used to construct centrifuges for
> uranium enrichment. But nuclear experts differ on whether the tubes are of
> the proper size and material.
>
> What Iraq still has, however, is the expertise to start again.
>
> Albright said the new evidence, coupled with long-running
> suspicions "that Iraq continued its nuclear weapons program even while
> inspectors were on the ground in the '90s," is what makes the latest
> declaration such a disappointment.
>
> Mohammed ElBaradei, chief of the International Atomic Energy
> Agency, said last week that the new submission amounts to a rehash of the
> 1996 report and covers "material we already had before."
>
> A line-by-line comparison of the table of contents from the 1996
> declaration and the 2002 version which was released last week by the United
> Nations finds subtle differences, mainly in translation, but not in
> substance.
>
> Inspectors were not surprised that Iraq resubmitted old reports
> since Baghdad claims it hasn't been working on weapons of mass destruction
> since the 1991 Gulf War. A submission of anything new would have contradicted
> that claim.
>
> ---
>
> EDITOR'S NOTE: Associated Press National Writer Matt Crenson,
> investigative researcher Randy Herschaft and Frankfurt correspondent Melissa
> Eddy contributed to this report.
information before), his point is valid that the US government/press either
through plan or accident (what sells?) edit much information that should be
available to the US public. It seems convenient that the info lost often would
be unattractive to the Bush agenda. I sit here hearing the same argument on
NPR as I write.
Wally, while you seem sincere in your passion, you also seem more determined to
quash opposing viewpoints than in constructive dialog. Multiple worldviews are
GOOD and impossible to quash without a lot of death happening.
joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
call me 646 279 2309
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER CUPCAKEKALEIDOSCOPE - send email to
CupcakeKleidoscope-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Quoting Wally Keeler <poetburo@sympatico.ca>:
> Blank
> From: marc.garrett
>
> Thanks for enlarging the text (extra big) to the scale equivalent of trying
> to shout genuine dissent down - you can feel proud.
> So I see you enlarged your own. Get a clue -- I enlarged it just to
> differentiate my response from yours. It is a crock assumption to assert
> that the motivation was to "shout genuine dissent down." You're still whining
> aren't you?
>
> Do you really think that war is just about the function of killing?
>
> Did I really think that? Get a grip. I made no such assertion. You feed on
> assumptions and presumptions -- and you're wrong for the most part. You are
> not a very good master of creating strawmen.
>
> No, other systems have to be put in place to create the right climate for
> physical action, an invasion of another culture. You must of realized that,
> that process started before 9-11 surely. I think you do, I also think that
> you do not care (personally) ...if you did, compassion would of won you over.
> There is something that you are not being honest about.
>
> Prove it -- or remove your peurile kangeroo kourt to a more appropoetic
> forum: listserv; fiction not facts.
>
> stopping people declaring their views will not create a better planet to
> live on, stopping killing people might do. You say it is simplistic,
>
> I didn't say it at all. I described your initial missive as a breathless
> bloated clone of National Inquirer tabloidism. But then again, National
> Inquiorer style is to make up assertions that have no basis in fact -- just
> as y ou are doing in this exchange.
>
> you are very wrong. It is obvious, not simplistic (wrong words); I am
> interested in the governments of this shaky, muddy ball called earth, to do
> something honorable for a change. And stop funding despots that come back to
> haunt them and the civilians of this world (don't you?), now that is
> simplistic, basic in fact, even stupid, sounds screwy to me, and to a lot
> other people as well. Contrary to what the American government & the Uk's are
> government shoving down everyone's throat.
> There's other government's also shoving shit down throats -- you might
> benefit by spreading your cause instead of the dime-a-dozen US-UK makes all
> other nations' governments bad. Get real.
>
> It's soulless and you know it...
>
> Much like your breathless bloated National Inquirer-like report.
>
>
>
> Hi Wally,
> Are you glad that there is a war happening?
>
> A ludicrous question, all too typical of shallowness. The answer is NO,
> I am not glad about it. In any event, I am unaware that it is happening. When
> did it start? I just checked the news, and as far as I can make out, it is
> still in the "rattling sabres" stage.
>
> Cuz death is what's going to happen, justify that...
>
> The matter was not about justifying death. (And just for the record --
> I am against capital punishment) The matter was your bloated and breathless
> propaganda. You might get better results for your concerns if you asserted
> your case without resorting to National Inquirer tabloid tactics.
>
>
> "An editing job for the ages..." What a fantastic bit of bloated
> hyperbole -- makes for great National Inquirer tabloid propaganda.
>
> And, wow, a historian friend who breathlessly claims it will be
> published tomorrow -- but for those who can hardly wait, I reproduce an AP
> report of December 18 last which reports the issue as a known story line.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: marc.garrett
> An editing job for the ages: corporations that aided the Iraqis
>
> As a professional editor, I was particularly curious about the
> "editing" the administration was doing on the 12,000 page Iraqi report on
> their weapons of mass destruction. Rumors have been swirling. The Americans
> claim, of course, that they were vetting the report for WMD-making
> instructions before passing it on to the roiling mass of non-veto nations in
> the Security Council. Others have suggested that part of what was being
> excised was a record of the corporations that once aided Iraq in achieving
> WMD capabilities.
> Now, a historian friend whom I trust has passed the following
> message on to me:
>
>
> "To be reported in tomorrow's Die Tageszeitung (Berlin daily),
> here is a list of US and European corporations that allegedly supplied Iraq
> with nuclear, chemical, biological, and missile technology, prior to 1991.
> The list comes, it seems, from the original Iraqi report to the Security
> Council.
> http://www.nationinstitute.org/tomdispatch/index.mhtml?pid#3
> Iraq Used Many Suppliers for Nuke Program
> By DAFNA LINZER Associated Press Writer
>
> UNITED NATIONS (AP) - Dozens of suppliers, most in Europe, the
> United States and Japan, provided the components and know-how Saddam Hussein
> needed to build an atomic bomb, according to Iraq's 1996 accounting of its
> nuclear program.
>
> The secret declaration, shown to The Associated Press, is virtually
> identical to the one submitted to U.N. inspectors on Dec. 7, according to
> U.N. officials. The reports have not been made public to prevent nuclear
> know-how from falling into the wrong hands and also to protect the names of
> companies that wittingly or unwittingly supplied Iraq with the means to make
> nuclear weapons.
>
> U.N. officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the only
> difference between the two reports is that the latest has a 300-page section
> in Arabic on civilian nuclear programs and a slightly larger typeface that
> stretches it to 2,100 pages.
>
> That foreign companies helped Iraq has long been known, and some of
> them have been identified before, but the Iraqi accounting adds up to the
> most exhaustive list so far of companies involved.
>
> Iraq's report says the equipment was either sold or made by more
> than 30 German companies, 10 American companies, 11 British companies and a
> handful of Swiss, Japanese, Italian, French, Swedish and Brazilian firms. It
> says more than 30 countries supplied its nuclear program.
>
> It details nuclear efforts from the early 1980s to the Gulf War and
> contains diagrams, plans and test results in uranium enrichment, detonation,
> implosion testing and warhead construction.
>
> In one chapter, Iraq admits to having a pilot plan in September
> 1990 - one month after it invaded Kuwait - to increase the enrichment of
> recovered uranium to 93 percent using centrifuges. The process is a
> complicated extraction and purification method that at full scale requires
> thousands of connected, high speed centrifuges.
>
> According to Iraq's report, the most detailed accounting of its
> former nuclear weapons program, it was also pursuing electromagnetic isotope
> separation as another method to enrich uranium, the key ingredient for an
> atomic explosion.
>
> The Iraqis had everything they needed to make nuclear weapons, said
> Gary Milhollin, director of the Wisconsin Project, a Washington-based think
> tank on nuclear arms control. "They weren't missing any components or any
> knowledge," he said in a phone interview. "It was simply a matter of time."
>
> Milhollin said that had it not been for the 1991 Gulf War, Iraq
> would have had nuclear weapons by now, thanks to hundreds of suppliers who
> sold it an impressive array of equipment and expertise, often with their
> government's approval and without being aware of the ultimate purpose.
> According to the Iraqi accounting, induction and electron beam furnaces,
> which could be used in shaping uranium parts for an atomic bomb, came from
> Consarc Corp. of Rancocas, N.J. The company says the items were never
> delivered, however.
>
> Newport Corp. of Irvine, Calif., is listed as a supplier of optical
> fiber, a product with uses ranging from communications to medical equipment.
> But the company said it doesn't carry the model listed in the declaration.
>
> EEV Inc., based outside New York City, is listed as a supplier of a
> thyratron, which the company says is used in medical imaging equipment. It
> could not immediately verify the sale of the item.
>
> Motorola Inc., was listed as the seller of fast photodetectors, but
> company spokeswoman Jennifer Weyrauch said she found no record to support the
> claim. "A photodetector product is not part of Motorola's current portfolio."
>
> Most of the sales were legal and often made with the knowledge of
> governments. In 1985-90, the U.S. Commerce Department, for example, licensed
> $1.5 billion in sales to Iraq of American technology with potential military
> uses. Iraq was then getting Western support for its war against Iran, which
> at the time was regarded as the main threat to stability in the oil-rich Gulf
> region.
>
> But inspectors have discovered over the years that Iraq often
> obtained supplies through middlemen or by lying to companies about the
> products' intended use.
>
> "It was useful in the past and it will be useful in the future to
> go to companies and ask them questions," said Ewen Buchanan, spokesman for
> the U.N. weapons inspectors. While the Iraqi declaration provides a lot of
> important information, the companies can often give inspectors insight into
> the real extent of Iraq's programs.
>
> Since the Gulf War, dozens of companies have either admitted to
> sales or were prosecuted in Europe for helping arm Iraq. Several no longer
> exist.
>
> "Revealing company names can discourage other companies from
> getting involved in deals with countries like Iraq where you don't really
> know the true end-use of your products," said David Albright, an American
> nuclear expert and a weapons inspector in 1996.
>
> According to Iraq's accounting, the real help came from German
> experts and companies, in particular H&H Metallform, which sold the Iraqis
> old designs for centrifuges.
>
> Cooperation with H&H "was fruitful and it was called upon to render
> technical assistance and consultations in various activities," Iraq wrote in
> its nuclear declaration.
>
> In 1993, German courts found two H&H employees guilty of violating
> export law and sentenced them to over two years in prison for working with
> Iraq.
>
> German companies allegedly involved in other aspects of Iraq's
> former weapons programs were named in a report Tuesday in the German daily
> Die Tag. The report also said companies such as DaimlerChrysler, Siemens and
> Preussag sold items to Iraq which were diverted to the weapons programs.
>
> The companies either declined to comment on the report, or said the
> deliveries had nothing to do with weapons, such as trucks or auto parts from
> DaimlerChrysler.
>
> Some of Iraq's nuclear materials were destroyed during previous
> U.N. inspections, and Iraq is now banned from repurchasing much of it. But
> reconnaissance photos released by the Bush administration in October indicate
> the Iraqis have been rebuilding sites previously used for nuclear
> development. A recent U.S. intelligence report says Iraq may have nuclear
> weapons by 2010.
>
> Iraq acknowledged to inspectors last month that it was importing
> aluminum tubes which it said were for conventional weapons. The Bush
> administration said the tubes could be used to construct centrifuges for
> uranium enrichment. But nuclear experts differ on whether the tubes are of
> the proper size and material.
>
> What Iraq still has, however, is the expertise to start again.
>
> Albright said the new evidence, coupled with long-running
> suspicions "that Iraq continued its nuclear weapons program even while
> inspectors were on the ground in the '90s," is what makes the latest
> declaration such a disappointment.
>
> Mohammed ElBaradei, chief of the International Atomic Energy
> Agency, said last week that the new submission amounts to a rehash of the
> 1996 report and covers "material we already had before."
>
> A line-by-line comparison of the table of contents from the 1996
> declaration and the 2002 version which was released last week by the United
> Nations finds subtle differences, mainly in translation, but not in
> substance.
>
> Inspectors were not surprised that Iraq resubmitted old reports
> since Baghdad claims it hasn't been working on weapons of mass destruction
> since the 1991 Gulf War. A submission of anything new would have contradicted
> that claim.
>
> ---
>
> EDITOR'S NOTE: Associated Press National Writer Matt Crenson,
> investigative researcher Randy Herschaft and Frankfurt correspondent Melissa
> Eddy contributed to this report.