João Pereira
Since 2002
Works in Batalha Portugal

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DISCUSSION

Re: Maybe we are the dead


Chris:

I don't like Derrida (Derridas differ(a)nce is only a nostalgia for
identity. I don't had mentioned Barthes but, now, about Jean Braudrillard,is
another story and seems to me, you don't know two very important and recent
works of Baudrillard: "L'Echange impossible" (1999) and "Les objects
singuliers (2000)". Particulary the last one, it's a dialogue with the
architect Jean Nouvel and i recomend this book to you, because they talking
about of a concept of art for the new millenium: the importance of the
information technologies, clonage (they suggest the World Trade Center as a
exemple of clonnes in architecture) codes, world politic and so one... Paul
Virilio is a reference in this book, also.
Curiosly, "Les objects singuiliers" start like this: "On ne va pas
commencer par le rien, parce que, selon la logique, le rien serait plutot un
point d' aboutissement (*)." It's my opinion too. We can't talk about art,
politic or other matter from the zero, without a pressuposing culture,
without references. All of us, i think, have their influences. In my case, i
don't claim have descovering something new; i interpret signs of a culture,
that's all! I don't live in a ivory tower, i live in today's world, with
especific problems, challanges and, in a small dimension, is important give
her contribution to change this state of things! My contribution is a
insignificant one, i'm just one guy, maybe, the meanest of the all men and
that because i'm very respect for the opinion of thinkings like Deleuze (he
was dead is 4/11/95) or Baudrillard. Frenchs or not, i try to learn with
them, because we have a lot to learn with them! Deleuze is dead, but in
reallity is alive! Foucault said that the XXI century will be the Deleuze
century, and he was right! Also, Deleuze's suicide must be a exemple to us,
because when he know had cancer, he refused to wait for dead! He had courage
to make a choice. Maybe we are the dead: we don't have such energie, to
combat the cancer of our times!

Best regards:

Joao Pedro
oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt

(*) Baudrillard/Nouvel, in "Les Objects singuliers", p.13, Editions
Calmann-Levy, 2000.

----- Original Message -----
From: "chris webb" <chris@pogoartist.com>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 12:43 AM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: pogogallery forum

> We have some discussions happeing in the pogogallery forum. Come and join
us at http://www.pogogallery.com
>
> Question?
> Have we now emerged from the glittering Hyper-Market of critical theory
with a shopping trolley full of theorems whose sell-by-date has long passed
by? Have our excursions accross the channel given us the greatest hangover
imaginable all the while we were trying in vain to numb down our spirits
with cheap french ideology?
>
> Baudrillard, where are you? Derrida, have you finally made one difference
too many? Barthes, did you not get over the fact that your mother passed
away? Where are you people now? What has become of you?
>
> Of course we must all die but perhaps not just yet. Why don't we try to
piece together a picture as to where it's at?
>
> Where is theory now? What ideas are going around? Let us build a new
hyper-market of ideas and theories!
>
> I would like to hear from anyone who has made it into this virtual ivory
tower and has something to say about their ideas and their theories.
>
> In anticipation,
>
>
> http://www.pogogallery.com
> + If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

DISCUSSION

Re: problems on Rhizome Raw


Rachel:

I agree with you there have been some problems, on Rhizome Raw, but
reinstate the Rare like a filtered list, for those who cannot stand the
heat of Raw, sounds to me, not a way to fix any problem, but a way to avoid
it,
running away to a cold place, where are superusers that will filtrate all
the information: they will protect the "elite" of rhizome, from any abuse...
All the others, burning in the fire! I think that model is the totaly opozit
of
idea of rhizome (Deleuze/Guattari)!
Rachel: from my point of view, reinstate the Rare like a filtred list,
it would be the beginning of the end for rhizome. What about the others,
whose posts the new Rare will don't accept? What do you say to them? Oh, i
now: that staf don't correspond to our criteria of selection! What means: we
have this censorship and you are completly impotent against him!
Wouldn't be better people change their attitudes? People
can change! And you don't need to strik an attitude.
I think the "migration" to another place, don't get better this
place. We have the exemple of the migrations of the populations, from
Africa, Asia and South America, to North America and Europa and, tell me,
this phenomena solved the problems world? And you want solved the small
problems of Raw, with a similar model at what's going on in our World? I
think that take us into a blind alley! And it would be a shame!

Best regards:

Joao Pedro
oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel Greene" <rachel@rhizome.org>
To: "rhizome" <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 4:03 PM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: problems on Rhizome Raw

>
> Dear Rhizome Raw Subscribers:
>
> There have been some serious problems on the list recently. A number of
> people have been engaging in personal attacks, abusive emails and
> high-volume posting. We have received many emails from raw subscribers who
> feel frustrated and demoralized by what is seen as an abuse of a community
> resource. We are concerned that Rhizome Raw is no longer able to function
> as an inclusive community resource.
>
> We share these feelings of frustration, but find the problem a difficult
> one to address. While rules and limits can help a public sphere function,
> the policing of public speech is not something to be taken lightly. With
> one brief exception, Raw has never been moderated. Until recently, Raw has
> somehow managed to function as a total free-for-all, a funky mix of
serious
> discourse, banter, announcements, identity pranks, ASCII art and other
> things. There have always been off-topic posts, but somehow the community
> managed to function without any interference from Rhizome workers.
>
> Instead of putting Raw into moderated mode, or unsubscribing people who
> abuse the list, we propose to reinstate the Rhizome Rare email list as a
> moderated version of Raw. Previously, Rare consisted of four channels that
> were filtered by an editorial intern. The new Rare would be a single
> channel that consists of texts selected by superusers. Raw would remain an
> unfiltered list. Those who are tired of the current tenor and activity on
> Raw could migrate to Rare. Those who can take the heat can stay in the
fire.
>
> We'd like to get the new Rhizome Rare going by early October.
>
> What do people think about this model?
>
> In the meantime, we encourage you to conserve your Rhizome time and energy
> by using the filtering features of your email software.
>
> Best,
>
> Rachel
>
>
>
> + If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

DISCUSSION

Fw: Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joao Pedro" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
To: "Max Herman" <maxnmherman@hotmail.com>
Cc: "Oliveira Pereira" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:33 AM
Subject: Fw: Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community.

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joao Pedro" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> To: "Max Herman" <maxnmherman@hotmail.com>
> Cc: "Oliveira Pereira" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community.
>
>
> > Max wrote:
> >
> > "Genius 2000 is anti-me also." You surprise me! You don't have a
ego
> so
> > big, after all! I was wrong again... I'm joking, Max! You don't need be
so
> > harsh to yourself! I apprecieted much this post. Thanks too!
> >
> > Best regards:
> >
> > Joao Pedro
> >
> > PS. A God bless is a man bless. You see, a drop of human kind is
> > enough, to god have ink to write the destiny of men.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Max Herman" <maxnmherman@hotmail.com>
> > To: <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>; <list@rhizome.org>
> > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 3:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Genius 2000 is anti-me also, and I like this post very more than one
> might
> > > think. So thanks and God bless. See other notes below.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Joao Pedro <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> > > >Reply-To: Joao Pedro <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> > > >To: <list@rhizome.org>
> > > >CC: "Oliveira Pereira" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> > > >Subject: Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community. Date: Thu, 12
> Sep
> > > >2002 22:29:23 +0100
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Joao Pedro" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> > > >To: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>; <list@rhizome.org>
> > > >Cc: "Oliveira Pereira" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:13 PM
> > > >Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Since the beginning of times, the myth had bring together the
> men
> > > >and
> > > > > give to them a sense of community. But a myth is a fable, a living
> > > > > narration, like wrote Levi-Strauss, a story in transformation,
that
> > > >change
> > > > > with the imagination, with the self-invention of the community
> > elements.
> > > > > It's not to idolize, a petrification of a image.
> > >
> > > Hence Brad Brace I think, unless he is trashcan juice, which I don't
> think
> > > he is.
> > >
> > > In the network of power,
> > > > > the art must pervert the grid values,
> > >
> > > www.geocities.com/genius-2000/January_1_Website.GIF is about grid
> values.
> > >
> > > not to submit to a expectant place,
> > > > > waiting comfortably, with redudant order-words. The art must
> attempt,
> > > >with
> > > > > fascination, simulation, fatal strategys, viral contamination,
> against
> > > >the
> > > > > objectivity of the mass media. Not to convert in another icon of
our
> > > >times,
> > > > > with a especific status.
> > >
> > > I.e. don't add more wreckage nonsense. This ain't easy! Humans are
> wired
> > > for depression and in that all we see is our own mess, because it's
all
> we
> > > can know (Ted Sawyer, g2k video).
> > >
> > > Jean Baudrillard wrote something about that in
> > > > > "Au-dela du vrai et du faux ou le malin genie de l'image".
> > >
> > > "About the true and false or the evil genius of the image"? I can use
> > that
> > > idea.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards:
> > > > >
> > > > > Joao Pedro
> > >
> > > You too bro.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. I have nothing against Max or someonelse. Simply,
there
> > are
> > > > > attitudes that i don't like. Perhaps it's a default of mine.
> > >
> > > Max needs and likes revision but G2K loves it. It's a perfect default
> > imao.
> > > I think maybe it is THE default that people never use.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>
> > > > > To: "'Joao Pedro'" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 5:22 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> > > >believe
> > > > > in genius
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the concentrated thoughts Joao...sounds like an
> > > >anti-"Max"ism.
> > > > > My thoughts are that an artist and the need for artists has always
> > been
> > > >to
> > > > > fertilize contradictions - by simply adding variations of an
> > intuitive
> > > > > understanding of the real (as slippery as that may be), a
cognitive
> > > >belief
> > > > > in myth making as well as one part spontaneity. Edward F. Edinger
> > wrote
> > > > > that human society cannot long survive unless its members are
> > > > > psychologically contained within a central living myth.;
> > >
> > > I think we need to square the previous myth (2^2=4) if we are to have
> > enough
> > > room.
> > >
> > > and so i see the
> > > > > Rhizome as one of the many soft machines that perpetuates myth.
> > Without
> > > > > much reflection, I comfortably say that belief in contradiction -
> > > >inside
> > > > > of my work and inside everyday stumblings, such textures created
> with
> > > >the
> > > > > elbows of bigger things leave me wanting to speak towards an
other -
> > > >things
> > > > > that i feel have been left unsaid (even if only through my sheer
> > > >naivity).
> > > > >
> > > > > best, d
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Joao Pedro [SMTP:oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:20 AM
> > > > > To: Doug Lewis
> > > > > Cc: Oliveira Pereira
> > > > > Subject: Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> > > >believe
> > > > > in genius
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Joao Pedro
> > > > > To: Doug Lewis ; list@rhizome.org
> > > > > Cc: Oliveira Pereira
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 3:42 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> > > >believe
> > > > > in genius
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Doug Lewis:
> > > > >
> > > > > It's not easy to answer to your question, but i will try.
> > > > > Nietzsche in XIX century, made the transition between: a
> > philosophy
> > > > > established in two fundamental truths that built the ocidental
> > thought,
> > > > > since Plato (the principle of identity and the principle of
> > > >contradiction),
> > > > > and a emergent philosophy that give emphasis to live, a vital
> > existence,
> > > > > beyound good and evil. The classic notion of contradiction,
defended
> > > >that
> > > > > two values, denying each other, only one could be truth, don't
serve
> > > > > Nietzsche. If one of the judges is truth, the other is fake, said
> the
> > > >logic
> > > > > of the syllogisms, based in the dialectic, like the dialectic used
> for
> > > > > Plato in their dialogues, to defeat the adversary. On the other
> hand,
> > > >for
> > > > > Nietzsche doesn't matter if a proposition is truth or fake... If
the
> > > >value
> > > > > would be useful in a vital way, then is rightful to make use of
it,
> > even
> > > > > that value being fake. But Nietzsche don't stop there and said:
the
> > > > > philosopher must invent new values, new meanings. It beahoves us
to
> do
> > > >the
> > > > > meaning of one thing, in the "praxis", in a vital and affirmative
> way.
> > > > > Dionysus is the affirmation god. The logical thought is no more a
> > > >labyrinth
> > > > > of moral (based in one truth), but the labyrinth of live. And in
> live
> > > >they
> > > > > are tensions, between potentials (as opposed to a identity) and a
> > > >tension
> > > > > of this kind is called "value". Not an economic or moral sense,
but
> in
> > a
> > > > > sense of self-invention, pure affirmation, a play that only have
the
> > > > > purpose of joy, to relieve the tension. But there are a danger, if
> you
> > > > > actualize this potential, over and over, in the same way. If it
> grows
> > > >like
> > > > > a image that never change, like a religious icon, a attractor to
all
> > > > > potentiality, then you have a force of power, a fascist one.
Because
> > > >that
> > > > > force attempt to impose themself like a identity, necessary to
all,
> > but
> > > > > they can't resolve all the contraditions, this power see enemys
> > > >everywhere,
> > > > > in a permenent paranoia state. A fascist state is a suicide state.
> > > >Paranoia
> > > > > will killing them.
> > > > > I don't think that's necessary to resolve the contradiction,
> > > >between
> > > > > truth or fake, right or wrong, good or evil, them or us, ally or
> > enemy.
> > > > > Like Nietzsche, the artist is beyound that duality of concepts.
> There
> > > >are
> > > > > many levels of desire, think, knowing... Reduce the complications
of
> > > > > desire, into one vision of things, in a "genial" perspective of
the
> > > >world,
> > > > > into the same "sublime" reality, without alternative, that's the
> > > >INJUSTICE
> > > > > they can do to us! Gore Vidal wrote in "Empire": "The condition of
> the
> > > > > hell, is not imagine that we have a alternative for our lives."
> > > > > The ability to contradict sometimes is hiden a will of power
> and
> > > >that
> > > > > will, have two faces: affirmation and denial. And the affirmation
of
> > the
> > > > > sublime man is a negative force. Because he don't accept another
> > > > > affirmation, the "yes" that can answer to own "yes". Dionysus need
> to
> > be
> > > > > loved. The sublime man is too much perfect and he needs nobody. He
> > judge
> > > > > the others by oneself and because of that, think he had solve all
> the
> > > > > contradiction. He solved nothing! Her affirmation deny the
> affirmation
> > > >of
> > > > > the others. But, you ask me: "We could answer always with a yes?"
Of
> > > >course
> > > > > we can't! We are not the "yes men"! That's why is important deny a
> > > >reactive
> > > > > force, which impose the INJUSTICE for all, the force that always
> say:
> > > >"You
> > > > > are wrong! We live in the better of the worlds and there's no
> > > >alternative!"
> > > > > Now, imagine that reactive power, reverse her position, turn
upside
> > down
> > > > > and don't say "no" anymore, but "yes" to the differents
> alternatives:
> > > >Then,
> > > > > it would be no more a fascist state, but a schizophrenic state!
> > > > > The ability to contradict is important to fight against this
> kind
> > of
> > > > > injustice! If you deny a negative force, to resist and face it,
you
> > will
> > > > > make a affirmation, a statement that can change the conditions of
a
> > > > > particular context and, in that case, speak gives a new meaning to
> > > >reality,
> > > > > a tool to dig deeper the indicium of the unsaid, what was behind
the
> > > > > oficial version. But, more important to speak, is to act! And for
> that
> > > >you
> > > > > also need ability, strategys: Dionysus must be quick and very
swift
> > too!
> > > > > How ever, in a open comunnity like rhizome, i think the
> essencial
> > is
> > > > > support, try understand, to relieve and help the nextone. Have a
> > > >different
> > > > > opinion it doesn't mean to have a ego of the size of the world!
> > > > > Contradiction between all opinions, gives to us a multiplicity of
> > points
> > > >of
> > > > > view, and remember, the fascist state hate that! That's why i
don't
> > > > > comprehend the dogmatism, even less, the insult in a place like
this
> > and
> > > >i
> > > > > agree with Lee Wells: "Stop the heat, spread love!" We're in the
> same
> > > >boat.
> > > > > Let's stay together, because together we will undefeatble!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards:
> > > > >
> > > > > Joao Pedro
> > > > > oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt
> > > > > http://oliveirapereira1.no.sapo.pt
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>
> > > > > To: "'Joao Pedro'" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 7:43 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> > > >believe
> > > > > in genius
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > written with a sublime message left fully intact... Nietzsche
> spoke
> > > >about
> > > > > > "The ability to Contradict" as a tool for speaking about one's
own
> > > > > > injustices of which they are yet unaware; is it possible?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > saltman
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Joao_Pedro
> > [SMTP:oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt]
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:39 PM
> > > > > > To: list@rhizome.org
> > > > > > Cc: Oliveira Pereira
> > > > > > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> > believe
> > > >in
> > > > > > genius
> > > > > >
> > > > > > << File: ATT00000.txt; charset = Windows-1252 >> << File:
> > > >ATT00001.htm;
> > > > > > charset = Windows-1252 >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > << File: ATT00004.htm >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >+ If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
> > > >-> post: list@rhizome.org
> > > >-> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > > >-> subscribe/unsubscribe:
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > > >-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > > >+
> > > >Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > > >Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> > >
> > > + If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
> > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > > +
> > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > > Membership Agreement available online at
http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

DISCUSSION

Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Calamus and Calamity


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joao Pedro" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
To: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>
Cc: "Oliveira Pereira" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Calamus and Calamity

> Sorry, i was out this weekend. I will answer to you, now:
>
> It's very interesting what you wrote about information, that tend to
> operate best within especific theaters, with a certain theatricality of
the
> object (Baudrillard) , in order to attract massive audiences. De Kerckhove
> gives relevance to the psychotechnologies of information and Noam Chomsky
> to the thought control in a democratic society, showing the way the media
> opperated, manufacturing necessary illusions. Propaganda is to democracy,
> what violence is to a dictatorship. Also, Paul Virilio made the contours
of
> the fascist state and defined them, in "L' insecurite du territoire." Myth
> can give a sense a community, feed upon the need of metanarratives, like
you
> said, but don't forget the myth as a product of the industry of the myths
> makers, that feed the public faith in the dominant ideologies. In that
way,
> myth can be a simplification of the reality, in order to increase a
> emotional and sympathetic reaction to the forces of the power and, also,
to
> distracting people from the important things. By the way,
> affirmation, like any product of the thought, it's a result of a complex
> process that envolves many levels and spontaneity, don't exist such thing!
> Gadamer already had demonstrated that the world is not like we see him,
but
> for us, only exist a "preconception" of the world. Then, affirmation is
not
> a result of the good will, as some philosophy defined, but is the result
> from the violence of a of a thought. For me, there was a author and a book
> that had left in my mind, a very strong impression and that was Proust and
> "Le Recherche du temp perdu." In the Proust's work, existence balanced
> between hazard and coercion, against the concept of "philosophic"
> method-Thers no valid method in life, only counts the hazard, the
Mallarmes
> "Coup de Des" (qui jamais n'abolira le hasard)-and coercion is the
actuality
> violence, a variation of arab concept of "calamus". "Calamus" is a writing
> feather; "calamus" write the live of anyone of us, signed each existencial
> situation, whether we want it or not. If you don't accept the "calamus"
> signed off, if you refused take it what comes to you, than happen the
> "calamity". Proust had read the arab collection of stories, "Thousand and
> one nights", when was a child and remained a strong memory of this
stories,
> where by a destiny circunstance, sometimes for a cruel casuality, live
> changed for the night to the day and the future reminds us, what reserves
to
> the men, it's so uncertain as unkown. Left to us, read the signs and
> interpret, decipher them, give a opinion, what means to act, to endanger,
> foundling to the deception, to play without knowing the consequences, play
> to lose in the end, if the eventual and the inevitable, plays agains us to
> signed our defeat. Art has always a choice, i agree with you, a choice
> that's a interpretation, sometimes unexpected, (strangely, disruptive) in
> the community work and what moves the imagination, the breakway depart
> points, are always signs of a culture, myths, believes, references,
detours,
> hints to a state of things, in a particular way, the violence of our world
> impress me, this obscene state of things in a wonderful world, the
dreadful
> abyss between richs and poors, in contrast to the beauty of the earth, our
> "homeplanet" that we treat so bad!
> Then, art manufactures myth, by it's inherent necessity and this
> necessity, is the fulcrum of the question. Art do it because is necessary,
> moved by that violence of a sign, increasing a rupture point and,
sometimes,
> breakdown becomes breakway. That's called art!
>
> Um abraco (best regards):
>
> Joao Pedro
>
> PS. I remember now: what i have said, don't have any reference at all
> to the Jacques Monod notion of casuality and necessity.
>
> A final note:
>
> Calamity will throw about the word, because men refused play, take a
> part, give a opinion. Apathetics, they liking better a slow dead.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>
> To: "'Joao Pedro'" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> Cc: <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 8:09 PM
> Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community.
>
>
> via mythologies, it seems, lies simple human constructs which thrive,
> infact, feed upon the need of expanding metanarratives. Why (?) is an
> insightful question i am certain. Informations as consciously planted
seeds
> tend to operate best within specific theaters as well as to certain
> audiences...De Kerckhove spoke of psychotechnologies and
> information-processing as having shifted from the private universe of the
> mind to the publicworld of the cathode ray tube... which sits well with
> Paul Virillos ideas which co-relate community, imagination and speed.
>
> "Art" it seems, has always had consistent choices to make - what is it's
> relationship to speed, to community and to imagination. Art manufactures
> myth not by simply "being", but by it's inherent necessity to
independently
> graft itself onto the legs of societies.
>
> Hola, (?) That's ola, hola is a spanish word! It mean's "hi!"
>
> DOug
>
> oh, nothing against Max either, but there is so many wonderful things to
> think about - his sort of arguments take up far to much space.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joao Pedro [SMTP:oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt]
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 4:29 PM
> To: list@rhizome.org
> Cc: Oliveira Pereira
> Subject: Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joao Pedro" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> To: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>; <list@rhizome.org>
> Cc: "Oliveira Pereira" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:13 PM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community.
>
>
> > Since the beginning of times, the myth had bring together the men
and
> > give to them a sense of community. But a myth is a fable, a living
> > narration, like wrote Levi-Strauss, a story in transformation, that
> change
> > with the imagination, with the self-invention of the community elements.
> > It's not to idolize, a petrification of a image. In the network of
power,
> > the art must pervert the grid values, not to submit to a expectant
place,
> > waiting comfortably, with redudant order-words. The art must attempt,
> with
> > fascination, simulation, fatal strategys, viral contamination, against
> the
> > objectivity of the mass media. Not to convert in another icon of our
> times,
> > with a especific status. Jean Baudrillard wrote something about that in
> > "Au-dela du vrai et du faux ou le malin genie de l'image".
> >
> > Best regards:
> >
> > Joao Pedro
> >
> > P.S. I have nothing against Max or someonelse. Simply, there are
> > attitudes that i don't like. Perhaps it's a default of mine.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>
> > To: "'Joao Pedro'" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 5:22 PM
> > Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> believe
> > in genius
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the concentrated thoughts Joao...sounds like an
anti-"Max"ism.
> > My thoughts are that an artist and the need for artists has always been
> to
> > fertilize contradictions - by simply adding variations of an intuitive
> > understanding of the real (as slippery as that may be), a cognitive
> belief
> > in myth making as well as one part spontaneity. Edward F. Edinger wrote
> > that human society cannot long survive unless its members are
> > psychologically contained within a central living myth.; and so i see
the
> > Rhizome as one of the many soft machines that perpetuates myth. Without
> > much reflection, I comfortably say that belief in contradiction -
inside
> > of my work and inside everyday stumblings, such textures created with
the
> > elbows of bigger things leave me wanting to speak towards an other -
> things
> > that i feel have been left unsaid (even if only through my sheer
> naivity).
> >
> > best, d
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joao Pedro [SMTP:oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:20 AM
> > To: Doug Lewis
> > Cc: Oliveira Pereira
> > Subject: Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> believe
> > in genius
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Joao Pedro
> > To: Doug Lewis ; list@rhizome.org
> > Cc: Oliveira Pereira
> > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 3:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> believe
> > in genius
> >
> >
> > Doug Lewis:
> >
> > It's not easy to answer to your question, but i will try.
> > Nietzsche in XIX century, made the transition between: a philosophy
> > established in two fundamental truths that built the ocidental thought,
> > since Plato (the principle of identity and the principle of
> contradiction),
> > and a emergent philosophy that give emphasis to live, a vital existence,
> > beyound good and evil. The classic notion of contradiction, defended
that
> > two values, denying each other, only one could be truth, don't serve
> > Nietzsche. If one of the judges is truth, the other is fake, said the
> logic
> > of the syllogisms, based in the dialectic, like the dialectic used for
> > Plato in their dialogues, to defeat the adversary. On the other hand,
for
> > Nietzsche doesn't matter if a proposition is truth or fake... If the
> value
> > would be useful in a vital way, then is rightful to make use of it, even
> > that value being fake. But Nietzsche don't stop there and said: the
> > philosopher must invent new values, new meanings. It beahoves us to do
> the
> > meaning of one thing, in the "praxis", in a vital and affirmative way.
> > Dionysus is the affirmation god. The logical thought is no more a
> labyrinth
> > of moral (based in one truth), but the labyrinth of live. And in live
> they
> > are tensions, between potentials (as opposed to a identity) and a
tension
> > of this kind is called "value". Not an economic or moral sense, but in a
> > sense of self-invention, pure affirmation, a play that only have the
> > purpose of joy, to relieve the tension. But there are a danger, if you
> > actualize this potential, over and over, in the same way. If it grows
> like
> > a image that never change, like a religious icon, a attractor to all
> > potentiality, then you have a force of power, a fascist one. Because
that
> > force attempt to impose themself like a identity, necessary to all, but
> > they can't resolve all the contraditions, this power see enemys
> everywhere,
> > in a permenent paranoia state. A fascist state is a suicide state.
> Paranoia
> > will killing them.
> > I don't think that's necessary to resolve the contradiction,
between
> > truth or fake, right or wrong, good or evil, them or us, ally or enemy.
> > Like Nietzsche, the artist is beyound that duality of concepts. There
are
> > many levels of desire, think, knowing... Reduce the complications of
> > desire, into one vision of things, in a "genial" perspective of the
> world,
> > into the same "sublime" reality, without alternative, that's the
> INJUSTICE
> > they can do to us! Gore Vidal wrote in "Empire": "The condition of the
> > hell, is not imagine that we have a alternative for our lives."
> > The ability to contradict sometimes is hiden a will of power and
> that
> > will, have two faces: affirmation and denial. And the affirmation of the
> > sublime man is a negative force. Because he don't accept another
> > affirmation, the "yes" that can answer to own "yes". Dionysus need to be
> > loved. The sublime man is too much perfect and he needs nobody. He judge
> > the others by oneself and because of that, think he had solve all the
> > contradiction. He solved nothing! Her affirmation deny the affirmation
of
> > the others. But, you ask me: "We could answer always with a yes?" Of
> course
> > we can't! We are not the "yes men"! That's why is important deny a
> reactive
> > force, which impose the INJUSTICE for all, the force that always say:
> "You
> > are wrong! We live in the better of the worlds and there's no
> alternative!"
> > Now, imagine that reactive power, reverse her position, turn upside down
> > and don't say "no" anymore, but "yes" to the differents alternatives:
> Then,
> > it would be no more a fascist state, but a schizophrenic state!
> > The ability to contradict is important to fight against this kind of
> > injustice! If you deny a negative force, to resist and face it, you will
> > make a affirmation, a statement that can change the conditions of a
> > particular context and, in that case, speak gives a new meaning to
> reality,
> > a tool to dig deeper the indicium of the unsaid, what was behind the
> > oficial version. But, more important to speak, is to act! And for that
> you
> > also need ability, strategys: Dionysus must be quick and very swift too!
> > How ever, in a open comunnity like rhizome, i think the essencial is
> > support, try understand, to relieve and help the nextone. Have a
> different
> > opinion it doesn't mean to have a ego of the size of the world!
> > Contradiction between all opinions, gives to us a multiplicity of points
> of
> > view, and remember, the fascist state hate that! That's why i don't
> > comprehend the dogmatism, even less, the insult in a place like this and
> i
> > agree with Lee Wells: "Stop the heat, spread love!" We're in the same
> boat.
> > Let's stay together, because together we will undefeatble!
> >
> >
> > Best regards:
> >
> > Joao Pedro
> > oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt
> > http://oliveirapereira1.no.sapo.pt
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>
> > To: "'Joao Pedro'" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 7:43 PM
> > Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> believe
> > in genius
> >
> >
> > > written with a sublime message left fully intact... Nietzsche spoke
> about
> > > "The ability to Contradict" as a tool for speaking about one's own
> > > injustices of which they are yet unaware; is it possible?
> > >
> > > saltman
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joao_Pedro [SMTP:oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:39 PM
> > > To: list@rhizome.org
> > > Cc: Oliveira Pereira
> > > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't believe
> in
> > > genius
> > >
> > > << File: ATT00000.txt; charset = Windows-1252 >> << File:
> ATT00001.htm;
> > > charset = Windows-1252 >>
> > >
> > << File: ATT00004.htm >>
> >
> >
>
> + If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
>
>
>

DISCUSSION

Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Calamus and Calamity


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joao Pedro" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
To: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>
Cc: "Oliveira Pereira" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Calamus and Calamity

> Sorry, i was out this weekend. I will answer to you, now:
>
> It's very interesting what you wrote about information, that tend to
> operate best within especific theaters, with a certain theatricality of
the
> object (Baudrillard) , in order to attract massive audiences. De Kerckhove
> gives relevance to the psychotechnologies of information and Noam Chomsky
> to the thought control in a democratic society, showing the way the media
> opperated, manufacturing necessary illusions. Propaganda is to democracy,
> what violence is to a dictatorship. Also, Paul Virilio made the contours
of
> the fascist state and defined them, in "L' insecurite du territoire." Myth
> can give a sense a community, feed upon the need of metanarratives, like
you
> said, but don't forget the myth as a product of the industry of the myths
> makers, that feed the public faith in the dominant ideologies. In that
way,
> myth can be a simplification of the reality, in order to increase a
> emotional and sympathetic reaction to the forces of the power and, also,
to
> distracting people from the important things. By the way,
> affirmation, like any product of the thought, it's a result of a complex
> process that envolves many levels and spontaneity, don't exist such thing!
> Gadamer already had demonstrated that the world is not like we see him,
but
> for us, only exist a "preconception" of the world. Then, affirmation is
not
> a result of the good will, as some philosophy defined, but is the result
> from the violence of a of a thought. For me, there was a author and a book
> that had left in my mind, a very strong impression and that was Proust and
> "Le Recherche du temp perdu." In the Proust's work, existence balanced
> between hazard and coercion, against the concept of "philosophic"
> method-Thers no valid method in life, only counts the hazard, the
Mallarmes
> "Coup de Des" (qui jamais n'abolira le hasard)-and coercion is the
actuality
> violence, a variation of arab concept of "calamus". "Calamus" is a writing
> feather; "calamus" write the live of anyone of us, signed each existencial
> situation, whether we want it or not. If you don't accept the "calamus"
> signed off, if you refused take it what comes to you, than happen the
> "calamity". Proust had read the arab collection of stories, "Thousand and
> one nights", when was a child and remained a strong memory of this
stories,
> where by a destiny circunstance, sometimes for a cruel casuality, live
> changed for the night to the day and the future reminds us, what reserves
to
> the men, it's so uncertain as unkown. Left to us, read the signs and
> interpret, decipher them, give a opinion, what means to act, to endanger,
> foundling to the deception, to play without knowing the consequences, play
> to lose in the end, if the eventual and the inevitable, plays agains us to
> signed our defeat. Art has always a choice, i agree with you, a choice
> that's a interpretation, sometimes unexpected, (strangely, disruptive) in
> the community work and what moves the imagination, the breakway depart
> points, are always signs of a culture, myths, believes, references,
detours,
> hints to a state of things, in a particular way, the violence of our world
> impress me, this obscene state of things in a wonderful world, the
dreadful
> abyss between richs and poors, in contrast to the beauty of the earth, our
> "homeplanet" that we treat so bad!
> Then, art manufactures myth, by it's inherent necessity and this
> necessity, is the fulcrum of the question. Art do it because is necessary,
> moved by that violence of a sign, increasing a rupture point and,
sometimes,
> breakdown becomes breakway. That's called art!
>
> Um abraco (best regards):
>
> Joao Pedro
>
> PS. I remember now: what i have said, don't have any reference at all
> to the Jacques Monod notion of casuality and necessity.
>
> A final note:
>
> Calamity will throw about the word, because men refused play, take a
> part, give a opinion. Apathetics, they liking better a slow dead.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>
> To: "'Joao Pedro'" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> Cc: <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 8:09 PM
> Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community.
>
>
> via mythologies, it seems, lies simple human constructs which thrive,
> infact, feed upon the need of expanding metanarratives. Why (?) is an
> insightful question i am certain. Informations as consciously planted
seeds
> tend to operate best within specific theaters as well as to certain
> audiences...De Kerckhove spoke of psychotechnologies and
> information-processing as having shifted from the private universe of the
> mind to the publicworld of the cathode ray tube... which sits well with
> Paul Virillos ideas which co-relate community, imagination and speed.
>
> "Art" it seems, has always had consistent choices to make - what is it's
> relationship to speed, to community and to imagination. Art manufactures
> myth not by simply "being", but by it's inherent necessity to
independently
> graft itself onto the legs of societies.
>
> Hola, (?) That's ola, hola is a spanish word! It mean's "hi!"
>
> DOug
>
> oh, nothing against Max either, but there is so many wonderful things to
> think about - his sort of arguments take up far to much space.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joao Pedro [SMTP:oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt]
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 4:29 PM
> To: list@rhizome.org
> Cc: Oliveira Pereira
> Subject: Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joao Pedro" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> To: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>; <list@rhizome.org>
> Cc: "Oliveira Pereira" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:13 PM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Myth and sense of community.
>
>
> > Since the beginning of times, the myth had bring together the men
and
> > give to them a sense of community. But a myth is a fable, a living
> > narration, like wrote Levi-Strauss, a story in transformation, that
> change
> > with the imagination, with the self-invention of the community elements.
> > It's not to idolize, a petrification of a image. In the network of
power,
> > the art must pervert the grid values, not to submit to a expectant
place,
> > waiting comfortably, with redudant order-words. The art must attempt,
> with
> > fascination, simulation, fatal strategys, viral contamination, against
> the
> > objectivity of the mass media. Not to convert in another icon of our
> times,
> > with a especific status. Jean Baudrillard wrote something about that in
> > "Au-dela du vrai et du faux ou le malin genie de l'image".
> >
> > Best regards:
> >
> > Joao Pedro
> >
> > P.S. I have nothing against Max or someonelse. Simply, there are
> > attitudes that i don't like. Perhaps it's a default of mine.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>
> > To: "'Joao Pedro'" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 5:22 PM
> > Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> believe
> > in genius
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the concentrated thoughts Joao...sounds like an
anti-"Max"ism.
> > My thoughts are that an artist and the need for artists has always been
> to
> > fertilize contradictions - by simply adding variations of an intuitive
> > understanding of the real (as slippery as that may be), a cognitive
> belief
> > in myth making as well as one part spontaneity. Edward F. Edinger wrote
> > that human society cannot long survive unless its members are
> > psychologically contained within a central living myth.; and so i see
the
> > Rhizome as one of the many soft machines that perpetuates myth. Without
> > much reflection, I comfortably say that belief in contradiction -
inside
> > of my work and inside everyday stumblings, such textures created with
the
> > elbows of bigger things leave me wanting to speak towards an other -
> things
> > that i feel have been left unsaid (even if only through my sheer
> naivity).
> >
> > best, d
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joao Pedro [SMTP:oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:20 AM
> > To: Doug Lewis
> > Cc: Oliveira Pereira
> > Subject: Fw: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> believe
> > in genius
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Joao Pedro
> > To: Doug Lewis ; list@rhizome.org
> > Cc: Oliveira Pereira
> > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 3:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> believe
> > in genius
> >
> >
> > Doug Lewis:
> >
> > It's not easy to answer to your question, but i will try.
> > Nietzsche in XIX century, made the transition between: a philosophy
> > established in two fundamental truths that built the ocidental thought,
> > since Plato (the principle of identity and the principle of
> contradiction),
> > and a emergent philosophy that give emphasis to live, a vital existence,
> > beyound good and evil. The classic notion of contradiction, defended
that
> > two values, denying each other, only one could be truth, don't serve
> > Nietzsche. If one of the judges is truth, the other is fake, said the
> logic
> > of the syllogisms, based in the dialectic, like the dialectic used for
> > Plato in their dialogues, to defeat the adversary. On the other hand,
for
> > Nietzsche doesn't matter if a proposition is truth or fake... If the
> value
> > would be useful in a vital way, then is rightful to make use of it, even
> > that value being fake. But Nietzsche don't stop there and said: the
> > philosopher must invent new values, new meanings. It beahoves us to do
> the
> > meaning of one thing, in the "praxis", in a vital and affirmative way.
> > Dionysus is the affirmation god. The logical thought is no more a
> labyrinth
> > of moral (based in one truth), but the labyrinth of live. And in live
> they
> > are tensions, between potentials (as opposed to a identity) and a
tension
> > of this kind is called "value". Not an economic or moral sense, but in a
> > sense of self-invention, pure affirmation, a play that only have the
> > purpose of joy, to relieve the tension. But there are a danger, if you
> > actualize this potential, over and over, in the same way. If it grows
> like
> > a image that never change, like a religious icon, a attractor to all
> > potentiality, then you have a force of power, a fascist one. Because
that
> > force attempt to impose themself like a identity, necessary to all, but
> > they can't resolve all the contraditions, this power see enemys
> everywhere,
> > in a permenent paranoia state. A fascist state is a suicide state.
> Paranoia
> > will killing them.
> > I don't think that's necessary to resolve the contradiction,
between
> > truth or fake, right or wrong, good or evil, them or us, ally or enemy.
> > Like Nietzsche, the artist is beyound that duality of concepts. There
are
> > many levels of desire, think, knowing... Reduce the complications of
> > desire, into one vision of things, in a "genial" perspective of the
> world,
> > into the same "sublime" reality, without alternative, that's the
> INJUSTICE
> > they can do to us! Gore Vidal wrote in "Empire": "The condition of the
> > hell, is not imagine that we have a alternative for our lives."
> > The ability to contradict sometimes is hiden a will of power and
> that
> > will, have two faces: affirmation and denial. And the affirmation of the
> > sublime man is a negative force. Because he don't accept another
> > affirmation, the "yes" that can answer to own "yes". Dionysus need to be
> > loved. The sublime man is too much perfect and he needs nobody. He judge
> > the others by oneself and because of that, think he had solve all the
> > contradiction. He solved nothing! Her affirmation deny the affirmation
of
> > the others. But, you ask me: "We could answer always with a yes?" Of
> course
> > we can't! We are not the "yes men"! That's why is important deny a
> reactive
> > force, which impose the INJUSTICE for all, the force that always say:
> "You
> > are wrong! We live in the better of the worlds and there's no
> alternative!"
> > Now, imagine that reactive power, reverse her position, turn upside down
> > and don't say "no" anymore, but "yes" to the differents alternatives:
> Then,
> > it would be no more a fascist state, but a schizophrenic state!
> > The ability to contradict is important to fight against this kind of
> > injustice! If you deny a negative force, to resist and face it, you will
> > make a affirmation, a statement that can change the conditions of a
> > particular context and, in that case, speak gives a new meaning to
> reality,
> > a tool to dig deeper the indicium of the unsaid, what was behind the
> > oficial version. But, more important to speak, is to act! And for that
> you
> > also need ability, strategys: Dionysus must be quick and very swift too!
> > How ever, in a open comunnity like rhizome, i think the essencial is
> > support, try understand, to relieve and help the nextone. Have a
> different
> > opinion it doesn't mean to have a ego of the size of the world!
> > Contradiction between all opinions, gives to us a multiplicity of points
> of
> > view, and remember, the fascist state hate that! That's why i don't
> > comprehend the dogmatism, even less, the insult in a place like this and
> i
> > agree with Lee Wells: "Stop the heat, spread love!" We're in the same
> boat.
> > Let's stay together, because together we will undefeatble!
> >
> >
> > Best regards:
> >
> > Joao Pedro
> > oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt
> > http://oliveirapereira1.no.sapo.pt
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doug Lewis" <dlewis@wag.mb.ca>
> > To: "'Joao Pedro'" <oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 7:43 PM
> > Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't
> believe
> > in genius
> >
> >
> > > written with a sublime message left fully intact... Nietzsche spoke
> about
> > > "The ability to Contradict" as a tool for speaking about one's own
> > > injustices of which they are yet unaware; is it possible?
> > >
> > > saltman
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joao_Pedro [SMTP:oliveirapereira1@sapo.pt]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:39 PM
> > > To: list@rhizome.org
> > > Cc: Oliveira Pereira
> > > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: Fw: RHIZOME RAW: A word of warning-don't believe
> in
> > > genius
> > >
> > > << File: ATT00000.txt; charset = Windows-1252 >> << File:
> ATT00001.htm;
> > > charset = Windows-1252 >>
> > >
> > << File: ATT00004.htm >>
> >
> >
>
> + If the reader will keep me company I shall be glad.
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
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>
>
>
>
>