ARTBASE (2)
BIO
Jim Andrews does http://vispo.com . He is a poet-programmer and audio guy. His work explores the new media possibilities of poetry, and seeks to synthesize the poetical with other arts and media.
Re: when Google has achieved the net art masterpiece, what are the artists to do?
Google
> captures information (the information has always been there, Google is
> just diverting it) and it's art or engineering or both. Whatever it is
> (art or engineering) it's more interesting than all the net art i've
> ever witnessed (including my own).
The idea of Google's marketing department + engineers producing definitive works of net.art
would probably fly in advertising circles. Like the idea that an artist without a gallery is
nothing would fly in gallery circles.
ja
> captures information (the information has always been there, Google is
> just diverting it) and it's art or engineering or both. Whatever it is
> (art or engineering) it's more interesting than all the net art i've
> ever witnessed (including my own).
The idea of Google's marketing department + engineers producing definitive works of net.art
would probably fly in advertising circles. Like the idea that an artist without a gallery is
nothing would fly in gallery circles.
ja
Re: when Google has achieved the net art masterpiece, what are the artists to do?
Part of the problem is in seeing such a thing as a masterpiece of net.art.
We end up with 24/7 broadcasts of linux source code being perceived as interesting net.art via
this aesthetic also, do we not?
A data stream is not a work of art any more than the Mississipi is.
Very interesting writing, though, t.whid.
Arteroids and Nio etc cannot compete with 3D gamer stuff and so on as entertainment, but there
are those (and I'm one of them) who are rarely entertained by entertainment. I find art more
entertaining than entertainment, oddly enough. More 'fun'. We continue to think to continue.
Teams of programmers don't scare me. Art operates on mojo. You can even give the code away.
ja
We end up with 24/7 broadcasts of linux source code being perceived as interesting net.art via
this aesthetic also, do we not?
A data stream is not a work of art any more than the Mississipi is.
Very interesting writing, though, t.whid.
Arteroids and Nio etc cannot compete with 3D gamer stuff and so on as entertainment, but there
are those (and I'm one of them) who are rarely entertained by entertainment. I find art more
entertaining than entertainment, oddly enough. More 'fun'. We continue to think to continue.
Teams of programmers don't scare me. Art operates on mojo. You can even give the code away.
ja
Re: when Google has achieved the net art masterpiece, what are the artists to do?
> there is data all around us. defining and capturing the data is the
> art, not the data. just as sculpture and architecture define space and
> air (the space isn't the art, the objects defining the space are the
> art) Google's architecture defines and captures information (in this
> case, human curiosity). someone could divert part of the flow of
> Mississippi and that would be art or engineering or both. Google
> captures information (the information has always been there, Google is
> just diverting it) and it's art or engineering or both. Whatever it is
> (art or engineering) it's more interesting than all the net art i've
> ever witnessed (including my own).
O come on t.whid, blow me another line. you're mesmerized by all that data.
ja
> art, not the data. just as sculpture and architecture define space and
> air (the space isn't the art, the objects defining the space are the
> art) Google's architecture defines and captures information (in this
> case, human curiosity). someone could divert part of the flow of
> Mississippi and that would be art or engineering or both. Google
> captures information (the information has always been there, Google is
> just diverting it) and it's art or engineering or both. Whatever it is
> (art or engineering) it's more interesting than all the net art i've
> ever witnessed (including my own).
O come on t.whid, blow me another line. you're mesmerized by all that data.
ja
Re: Re: "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel
> I probably suggested the deeper-layers of (alternate)
> contribution because the navigation through the existing
> slippery-shifting text felt a lot more like writing than
> reading.
Yes, it is rather compositional; too many possibilities for the author to keep track of, though
it isn't hard to look at each single part and how it reads beside each other single part it's
beside, or "single joins" as Pauline calls them.
> Probably-not, but is the blue-text also related to
> (printers') bluelines?
That'd be for Pauline.
> I have to ask: how does anyone find the time/impetus to
> keep-up with the ever-new proprietary web software and
> compatibility-uses?
I only upgrade when the old version doesn't work anymore for some reason (which happens, as my
system slows to a crawl) or there's some feature in the new version I want.
(I'm _still almost reluctantly working
> on my first Flash project. All I really wanted to do I
> suspect was to distribute/publish my 25-yr old still photo
> project in the only venue that might give it chance... All
> this other stuff flying-around the screen ;)) But, the Blue
> Hyacinth, gives me some inspiration/hope.
You have an interesting presence on the net, Brad. You're on several other lists I'm on also, I
have chuckled many times reading your critical remarks, and you maintain some of your project
via ftp, as well as the Web. I just spent an hour clicking through some of your photography at
http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html . I recognize some of those places, of course, like
the "unexpected pond"--have had that experience before around Victoria. Maybe it isn't in
Victoria; but it is an experience.
And you've been doing that 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project since 94. Can't be too many instances of net
projects from 94 still going. And something added to it twice a day. That's pretty remarkable.
ja
> contribution because the navigation through the existing
> slippery-shifting text felt a lot more like writing than
> reading.
Yes, it is rather compositional; too many possibilities for the author to keep track of, though
it isn't hard to look at each single part and how it reads beside each other single part it's
beside, or "single joins" as Pauline calls them.
> Probably-not, but is the blue-text also related to
> (printers') bluelines?
That'd be for Pauline.
> I have to ask: how does anyone find the time/impetus to
> keep-up with the ever-new proprietary web software and
> compatibility-uses?
I only upgrade when the old version doesn't work anymore for some reason (which happens, as my
system slows to a crawl) or there's some feature in the new version I want.
(I'm _still almost reluctantly working
> on my first Flash project. All I really wanted to do I
> suspect was to distribute/publish my 25-yr old still photo
> project in the only venue that might give it chance... All
> this other stuff flying-around the screen ;)) But, the Blue
> Hyacinth, gives me some inspiration/hope.
You have an interesting presence on the net, Brad. You're on several other lists I'm on also, I
have chuckled many times reading your critical remarks, and you maintain some of your project
via ftp, as well as the Web. I just spent an hour clicking through some of your photography at
http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html . I recognize some of those places, of course, like
the "unexpected pond"--have had that experience before around Victoria. Maybe it isn't in
Victoria; but it is an experience.
And you've been doing that 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project since 94. Can't be too many instances of net
projects from 94 still going. And something added to it twice a day. That's pretty remarkable.
ja
Re: RE: [webartery] "Blue Hyacinth" by Pauline Masurel
Thanks, Brad. Yes, I wasn't sure about the wreader input dynamics. I can see how clicking on a
phrase could open a box which would allow you to change a phrase or, with more work, add one.
There is a certain resistance in the nature of the stir fry to what the wreader wants. It's a
bit hard to get it to do exactly what you want it to do. It twitches and turns and resists
attempts to master it. Though I suppose it could succumb to a click easily enough and open up a
text editing box.
And in that case, the thing is changed from an entity on its own to something which permits a
different type of wreading.
I did think of trying to make an editor so that you could make your own, and save them. The
difficulties of the DHTML programming interface were quite steep there, however, unlike Flash or
Director. Still, the stir fry mechanism itself, in its current state, would be hard to do with
Flash or Director so that the text moved with the same furtive energy as the <SPAN> objects do,
which is important to the energy of the thing. It keeps itself together as a single text (a bit
desperately) even as it is transformed into a different text.
The issue you raise is an interesting one, I think, concerning this piece and others. To some
extent the thing is tamed by such a feature. Though that might depend on the implementation of
the editing features. An editable entity is a bit less autonomous an entity. But an editable
entity is also often a more interesting entity for the wreader. And allows a different sort of
insite into the entity. As it is now, the focus is on the texts that were written and their
confluence, as well as on the furtive dynamic entity. I am neither of one mind or the other
concerning whether one should 'honor the text' but, currently, the stir fry is a form in which
the text of the writer is 'honored' in a certain way, or it isn't editable anyway, which may be
a fine distinction, but I think once you make it editable, as it is in Arteroids, for instance,
at http://vispo.com/arteroids , it enters a different territory, no less interesting and
certainly with its own attractions, but quite different.
I saw a piece recently by France's Philippe Castellin, called "Le poeme est la somme..." at
http://www.sitec.fr/users/akenatondocks/DOCKS-datas_f/collect_f/auteurs_f/C_f/CASTELLIN_f/anim_f
/lasomme_F/poeme.html (make sure you get the full url). In this piece, the paragraph marks are
more interesting than any words he could have used instead, which I found fascinating. The piece
is, in part, a subtle examination of how the focus moves from what a text says to the code
entity and also the different language of what the entity is saying, apart from the words that
are shown. And perhaps the poem is the sum of what is said in all these languages.
Thanks very much, Brad, for your interest in Pauline's and my work together.
>> It's a pleasure to publish Pauline Masurel's piece "Blue Hyacinth" at
>> http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/bluehyacinth3.html (requires IE 4+ for PC).
*********
> Lovely work!
>
> Thought it might be interesting to allow readers to become
> contributors if when they clicked (perhaps with a modifier
> key -option-) on a link, additional text could be added, but
> only viewed when "digging deeper" into the mix (?)
>
> An updated version of "the world's longest sentence."
>
>
>
>
> The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> since 1994 <<<<
>
> + + + serial ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/b/bbrace
> + + + eccentric ftp://ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace
> + + + continuous hotline://artlyin.ftr.va.com.au
> + + + hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace
> + + + imagery ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace
>
> News: alt.binaries.pictures.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.misc
> alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc alt.12hr
>
> . 12hr email
> subscriptions => http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/buy-into.html
>
>
> . Other | Mirror: http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html
> Projects | Reverse Solidus: http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/
> | http://bbrace.net
>
>
> { brad brace } <<<<< bbrace@eskimo.com >>>> ~finger for pgp
phrase could open a box which would allow you to change a phrase or, with more work, add one.
There is a certain resistance in the nature of the stir fry to what the wreader wants. It's a
bit hard to get it to do exactly what you want it to do. It twitches and turns and resists
attempts to master it. Though I suppose it could succumb to a click easily enough and open up a
text editing box.
And in that case, the thing is changed from an entity on its own to something which permits a
different type of wreading.
I did think of trying to make an editor so that you could make your own, and save them. The
difficulties of the DHTML programming interface were quite steep there, however, unlike Flash or
Director. Still, the stir fry mechanism itself, in its current state, would be hard to do with
Flash or Director so that the text moved with the same furtive energy as the <SPAN> objects do,
which is important to the energy of the thing. It keeps itself together as a single text (a bit
desperately) even as it is transformed into a different text.
The issue you raise is an interesting one, I think, concerning this piece and others. To some
extent the thing is tamed by such a feature. Though that might depend on the implementation of
the editing features. An editable entity is a bit less autonomous an entity. But an editable
entity is also often a more interesting entity for the wreader. And allows a different sort of
insite into the entity. As it is now, the focus is on the texts that were written and their
confluence, as well as on the furtive dynamic entity. I am neither of one mind or the other
concerning whether one should 'honor the text' but, currently, the stir fry is a form in which
the text of the writer is 'honored' in a certain way, or it isn't editable anyway, which may be
a fine distinction, but I think once you make it editable, as it is in Arteroids, for instance,
at http://vispo.com/arteroids , it enters a different territory, no less interesting and
certainly with its own attractions, but quite different.
I saw a piece recently by France's Philippe Castellin, called "Le poeme est la somme..." at
http://www.sitec.fr/users/akenatondocks/DOCKS-datas_f/collect_f/auteurs_f/C_f/CASTELLIN_f/anim_f
/lasomme_F/poeme.html (make sure you get the full url). In this piece, the paragraph marks are
more interesting than any words he could have used instead, which I found fascinating. The piece
is, in part, a subtle examination of how the focus moves from what a text says to the code
entity and also the different language of what the entity is saying, apart from the words that
are shown. And perhaps the poem is the sum of what is said in all these languages.
Thanks very much, Brad, for your interest in Pauline's and my work together.
>> It's a pleasure to publish Pauline Masurel's piece "Blue Hyacinth" at
>> http://vispo.com/StirFryTexts/bluehyacinth3.html (requires IE 4+ for PC).
*********
> Lovely work!
>
> Thought it might be interesting to allow readers to become
> contributors if when they clicked (perhaps with a modifier
> key -option-) on a link, additional text could be added, but
> only viewed when "digging deeper" into the mix (?)
>
> An updated version of "the world's longest sentence."
>
>
>
>
> The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> since 1994 <<<<
>
> + + + serial ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/b/bbrace
> + + + eccentric ftp://ftp.idiom.com/users/bbrace
> + + + continuous hotline://artlyin.ftr.va.com.au
> + + + hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace
> + + + imagery ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace
>
> News: alt.binaries.pictures.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.misc
> alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc alt.12hr
>
> . 12hr email
> subscriptions => http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/buy-into.html
>
>
> . Other | Mirror: http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html
> Projects | Reverse Solidus: http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net/
> | http://bbrace.net
>
>
> { brad brace } <<<<< bbrace@eskimo.com >>>> ~finger for pgp