Jim Andrews
Since the beginning
Works in Victoria Canada

ARTBASE (2)
BIO
Jim Andrews does http://vispo.com . He is a poet-programmer and audio guy. His work explores the new media possibilities of poetry, and seeks to synthesize the poetical with other arts and media.
Discussions (847) Opportunities (2) Events (14) Jobs (0)
DISCUSSION

Re: XP service pack 2


My apologies for no Shockwave for your Linux.

Do you think of web pages as necessarily involving browser chrome? I can
(sort of) see the argument that browser chrome should be the option of the
viewer, whether they want any or not, because developers can go fullscreen
and provide no obvious way to close the window if there's no chrome, and
consequently newbies are flummoxed (though newbies are generally flummoxed
eventually one way or another anyway). but, at very least, the viewer should
be able to go View>Fullscreen or F11 or whatever and get no friggin chrome
(unless they mouse the top of the screen and then some chrome slides down
like it'll slide up if you mouse the bottom of the screen).

My work doesn't require fullscreen no browser chrome, but it benefits from
it. Just like most work would benefit from it in that, you know, why would
you want to share the screen with microsoft or apple or any company, for
that matter? I think the only reason might be because they provide nav tools
that aren't built into the interface of the work that are necessary to the
work. If you're building work that has something to do with interface, then
you are very likely to build your own nav and maybe even do something
unusual and integral in this regard.

Web.art can deliver through the browser apps every bit as interesting as
downloadable exe's. I far prefer them through the browser. You don't have to
save the thing somewhere and install it before you can view it and then
maybe have to create a shortcut or whatever so you don't forget where it is
and have it clutter your hard drive. You get access to the app with one
click when it's on the Web.

Fullscreen no browser chrome *is* associated with desktop apps, but many of
us have been using it for years for Web apps, at least on IE for the PC and
Opera. If it is *necessary* that there be browser chrome, whether the viewer
wants it or not, that detracts from the Web as a medium for apps and art
that has the wherewithal to use the full screen.

Now I find Dreamweaver is launching my IE fullscreen no browser chrome, even
though I have sp2. Hmmmmmmmmm. I like that. I wonder how it's doing it?

ja
http://vispo.com

DISCUSSION

Re: XP service pack 2


If you use Linux, you can't see most of my work anyway, since most of it is
in Shockwave.

The fullscreen thing isn't the way you seem to think it is. It's simply
*best* to view *some* works fullscreen no browser chrome. If your browser
doesn't support it, then you can still open the page, but the screen has
some browser chrome on it. My work tends to use all the space it has
available to it. It doesn't *require* the full screen. But, for instance, a
piece like Arteroids or, more recently, the ound poem uses all the space
it's given and, anyway, why would a work of art want to be framed by browser
chrome that intrudes its presence into the experience of the art? I can
think of some reasons in particular types of works, but generally you want
to engage the whole screen and the whole computer and the whole brain and
being of the viewer and as much of everything else in the universe as you
can pack into that screen and the audio etc.

ja

> The problem with IE is that it *doesn't* work the way that it should. It
> uses tons of non-standard stuff so you end up with pages that work in no
> other browser but IE. That's not the way things should be. I'm running
> Linux, I don't have the option of keeping a copy of IE lying around for
> emergencies. That means that those websites are broken, they don't work
> the way they should. Saying that an exclusive IE solution *works the way
> it should* would be questionable. So bear in mind that unless you find a
> way to make this work in all browsers, I, along with a growing number of
> Linux users, am not going to have the pleasure of seeing your work.
>
> Pall

DISCUSSION

Re: XP service pack 2


> re: Firefox, you can't sell something which is free; respectfully, you
> are *such* the Windows apologist.

That's bullshit twhid. Just because I don't jump on the politically correct
bandwagon that disses all things Microsoft with, often, artsy idiotic
arguments, that doesn't make me an apologist for Windows. There's a G5 and a
PC on my desk. I just want one that works the way it should, and neither of
them do.

ja

DISCUSSION

Re: XP service pack 2


Hi Pall,

Yes, there is only a title bar in the window up top in sp2. Though, as with
other windows that have javascript in them, it asks you if you want to allow
'active content'. Pretty annoying, that 'allow active content?' constant
ugly crap popping up. way worse than pop up windows. security issues are
ruining internet explorer. the 'solutions' they're implementing are worse
than the problem.

I'm more talking about trying to open fullscreen no browser chrome. Even
when you go View>Fullscreen yourself in IE in sp2 (never mind doing it via
javascript), the bloody thing insists on the status bar at the bottom of the
window. So in the case where the window doesn't fill the screen, you might
get just a title bar, but when it fills the screen, you get at least a
status bar (at the bottom of the window, of course).

My favorite things about IE were that fullscreen-no-browser-chrome feature
and the full DHTML since IE 5 compared with what the Mac or (at least until
recently) Netscape provided. Fullscreen no browser chrome was great for
complete focus. *If* Firefox/mozilla offers it, I would have a good look at
it as something to recommend as an art browser.

Is mozilla/firefox for the mac too?

ja

DISCUSSION

Re: XP service pack 2


What is "Chrome" ?

Browser chrome is anything on the screen that isn't part of the html
content, anything visual that gives any indication that you're in a browser.

It's important to some art pieces that it not be framed by browser chrome.
The less browser chrome, the better, for my work, and for the work of many
net.artists. Of course then you're under some sort of obligation to give
people a way to close the window and navigate through your content not via
the usual browser controls but via your own interface. And to use the whole
screen integrally.

Some browsers permit a state of no browser chrome, some don't. No Mac
browser permits it, that I know of. Someone please correct me if there is
one. On the PC, Internet Explorer did, prior to XP service pack 2 (sp 2).
Robert, I hope, is trying to say that Firefox supports it. Netscape on the
PC doesn't support it.

ja
http://vispo.com