Ivan Pope
Since the beginning
Works in Brighton United States of America

BIO
In the place where analogue and digital overlap, that's why you will find me in the kitchen at parties.
Everything is at my site, http://blog.ivanpope.com
Discussions (225) Opportunities (0) Events (0) Jobs (0)
DISCUSSION

Re: "Exclusive"


Exclusive"
http://www.salsabomb.com/exclusive/

Eryk et al,
Maybe because its because I live in Britain, but when I saw that piece of=
video I thought the message was: 'Look, we told you what sort of crazy kil=
lers these people are, but even we didn't believe they would actually KILL =
DOGS. Now you've seen it with your own eyes, nothing can stand between the =
nation and TOTAL WAR.' That said, I do believe that the US recently raised =
hundreds of thousands of dollars to rescue one dog from a sinking ship, and=
didn't someone to go jail for throwing someone's dog into the path of an o=
ncoming vehicle? So maybe you are as insane as we are on this subject.

It's like our recent case here of Doctor Shipman who killed over 200, may=
be 400 of his patients. I mean, he just killed them with injections in his =
surgery or their houses. No-one batted an eyelid until he FORGED A WILL to =
inherit one womans estate. I wrote a letter to the press: 'It's ok to kill =
our parents willy nilly, but by god, trying to steal our inheritance, that =
really is beyond the pale.' So he got busted.

That's how I felt about the dog thing.

Ivan

DISCUSSION

Spam


I got this bit of spam today, in its entirety:

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I thought it must be from:
> _______________________________________
>
> __ - - lo_y - - __ _
> _______________________________________
>

:-)
Ivan

DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: The Artist speaking of his Brushes etc and other stuff


>
> Neil Jenkins <neil@devoid.co.uk>
>
> Keywords:
>
> Pall Thayer wrote:
>
> > ...we have alot of people who are good coders and bad artists and good
artists but bad coders....
>
> what i want to see is bad coders and bad artists combined :)

That's nothing, I once met a bad coder WHO WASN'T EVEN TRYING TO BE AN
ARTIST

Ivan

DISCUSSION

Re: I have a theory =


> Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: I have a theory =

I only have a dream, is that alright?

> And King is for sure linked to the aliens living in the crater on the North
> Pole. Some people may discount this as being a crock of sh--. But at least I
> have a theory on the matter and I think it has some good points. Just sit
> back and let your mind drift.
>
> Lee
>
> on 8/12/02 12:24 AM, marc.garrett at marc.garrett@furtherfield.org wrote:
>
>> I also think that my theory and your link to Martin Luther King also has
>> profound implications.
>>
>> marc:_0
>>
>>
>>>> I have a theory =
>>>>
>>>> That all dinasours were thin at one end - fat in the middle - And then
>> thin
>>>> at the other end.
>>>>
>>>> This is my theory and I am sticking to it.
>>>>
>>>> Unless of course someone else proves otherwise...
>>>
>>> marc,
>>>
>>> i think your theory has profound implications. whereas at one level,
>>> one may say that the pterodactyl does not comply to this mold.
>>> perhaps our constructed image of the pterodactyl is what is
>>> fundamentally flawed in the first place. These re-constructions are
>>> based on theoretical evidence from fossil remains of skeletal
>>> structures only. Suspect at best. Imagine the bird/lizard with the
>>> same bones, but redistributed lumps of fat.
>>>
>>> One clue is your reference to Martin Luther King, who was also kind
>>> of small at the ends but larger in the middle.
>>>
>>> Judson
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> PLASMA STUDII
>>> http://plasmastudii.org
>>> 223 E 10th Street
>>> PMB 130
>>> New York, NY 10003
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> + vs. every art school ever...
>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php3
>
> + vs. every art school ever...
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php3
>

DISCUSSION

Re: The Artist speaking of his Brushes


> Hi Ivan,

Firstly, if I might just say this, whether we agree or disagree, I love your
submissions because they give us something to talk about on this generally
sterile list, and I think we could spend a few nights in the bar together.
And I think the rules are certainly a step in a correct direction.
Anyway ...

>> If we conform to these 'rules', we get to be 'New Net Art'.
>>
>
> Actually if a work conforms to the rules, I've been referring to it as
> "Six Rules Compliant,"

Are you here referring to your original rules or these new rules?
Oh god, this is so freaky to me. Am I six rules compliant, should I care? I
understand what you are trying to do: get those working with technology to
confront the fact that they are playing games. But rules is rules. Made to
be broken. I think my main issue is that your rules are like a checklist: do
I comply, whoops, 40% of my work is in Flash, better cut that back a bit and
scrap the CV. Then I am compliant and will avoid the discursive police.

>> Surely in all areas of art, most is unimaginative and derivative. Visibly
>> successful artists will 'inspire' countless copycats. Art becomes what art
>> is seen to be. It is incredibly hard to break out of this vicious circle.
>> Why do you think that your list will lead to the production of any art at
>> all, let alone great art?
>>
>
> Do I think it will produce "Great Art"? As you're an
> anarchist I am surprised you would use that term. I don't really know
> what "Great Art" means; ... How do you define "Great Art"?

By great art I mean surely that we aspire to art being as good as it
possibly can be, that we aspire to our art remaining in the minds of those
who have seen it, that it challenges them, worries them, confuses them,
keeps them coming back wondering. Im not sure why anarchy and great art are
mutually exclusive? Great art is just the art that changes our view of the
world. Anarchy is just an absence of given rules.

>> Why are you driven to a public declaration of your dissatisfaction with the
>> state of (digitally based) art?
>>
> I don't like being bored by a lot of what I see, and I also don't like
> this rush towards technology that gets abandoned as soon as the new
> shiny thing comes out for everyone to buy. ... I like the Six Rules because
> they are entry level; you can come in and follow those rules and you are
> making art and contributing to dialogue.

I still dont see why you feel that it is a public issue: that you are bored,
that you feel it should be like this or like that, so what? And for the six
rules, I mean, are you Chairman Mao? I find your statement that by following
the six rules you are making art to be preposterous. Surely by following the
six rules you are avoiding boring Eryk Salvaggio. Whatever else you are
doing is in the lap of the gods. I guess my point here is that your six
rules are nothing of the sort. They are like the prescriptions of bored
busybodies everywhere: dont do this, dont do that, do this, it will all be
alright. Sod it, Eryk, dont tell people not to do what people want to do.
Write long learned papers regretting the trend towards the attachment of a
CV to every bit of work, or the overuse of Flash, make you case where you
wish. But to impose rules on us like we are imbiciles, no, please.

>> I find Eryk's rules a bit negative to do any good. Don't do this, don't
do
>> that, don't use this, don't use that.
>>
>
> Interesting; I felt that these made the rules a lot more open ended.
> They're reductive rules. Would people care if I said "You must use HTML
> only, and then when you use it, you must talk about emotional subjects,
> or else you're not art." That's kind of disgusting to me. I don't want
> to tell people what to do, but I don't mind saying what they should
> avoid doing. Maybe there's no difference? People can talk about anything
> they want with the six rules; except for technology.

Well, Id rather you didnt invent rules but engaged in a conversation about
what ails you. There is a lot to be said on this subject. But I just find
your rules to be banal and barely thought out. Just tossed off. How long did
you ponder them? They vary from the absolutist (dont promote yourself) to
the trivial (dont use more than 70% Flash, I mean, where did that come from,
how about 65% or 80%)

Cheers, Ivan