Ivan Pope
Since the beginning
Works in Brighton United States of America

BIO
In the place where analogue and digital overlap, that's why you will find me in the kitchen at parties.
Everything is at my site, http://blog.ivanpope.com
Discussions (225) Opportunities (0) Events (0) Jobs (0)
DISCUSSION

Re: ArtBase 2002: pick your faves


> From: "Francis Hwang" <francis@rhizome.org>

> Last year there were 415 entries added to the ArtBase. I've listed them
> below for your perusal. Ambitious critic/curator-types might use this list
> as a starting point for a "Top Ten" list. Or you could take this as an
> opportunity to see what exactly those other chatty people on Rhizome do when
> they're not trying to impress you with their wit and verve on Rhizome Raw.
> Enjoy ...
>
> Francis Hwang
> Director of Technology
> Rhizome

This posting from Francis Hwang once again sent me back to the Rhizome site
to try to work out what its all about. After all, 415 artworks submitted,
more than one a day. That must represent a huge investment of effort by a
community of artists, technicians, researchers, teachers, students and the
general public. And the intent of Rhizome is to:

'... provide an online platform for new media artists to present their work
within a context of relevant critical discourse and online discussions.'

But there is no context. There is no critical discourse and almost no online
discussion.

Works are added to Rhizome, but there are no tools to analyse what is added.
No way to take the pulse of production. There is not even a way to explore
the store of works. You can't search by genre or keyword. You can't search
by date. There is no linkage between works and discussion.

Rhizome claims a community, but you can only click randomly on names to see
who turns up. You can't spin off specific discussions. You can't form sub
groups with specific interests.

I say this in frustration, not to take a pop at the nice folks at Rhizome.
But surely with the available network tools, the blog tools, the database
tools, the community tools, the discussion tools, it should be possible to
get this community talking?

Otherwise we just end up with a huge list of art projects with no added
value.

Now Rhizome becomes a pay for service, and Ive given more than my dues. But
in return I ask for Rhizome to fulfil its remit and create that community of
critical discourse.

YES or NO?

Cheers, Ivan

--
Ivan Pope
ivan@ivanpope.com
www.ivanpope.com

"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death"
Hunter S. Thompson

DISCUSSION

Re: On Karei, AKA, What I Did On My Vacation


This is in danger of becoming a K lovein. K does make some interesting
points. But, he is such a rude and obnoxious shit, that who really cares?
Cheers, Happy Xms and shame about Joe Strummer, Ivan
--
Ivan Pope
ivan@ivanpope.com
www.ivanpope.com

"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death"
Hunter S. Thompson

> From: "joseph (yes)" <joseph@electrichands.com>
> Reply-To: "joseph (yes)" <joseph@electrichands.com>
> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 15:06:47 +0000
> To: Eryk Salvaggio <eryk@maine.rr.com>
> Cc: list@rhizome.org
> Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: On Karei, AKA, What I Did On My Vacation
>
> I find that some of what Karai says about me is not without truth, so I start
> wondering if I am being converted or awakened. And then I get insecure, for if
> it is the latter, and I reject the conversion, what do I do about the truths I
> found? It means a hell of a lot of work. I have just gotten used to the idea
> that there is no identifiable truths, which conclusion results similarly from
> an uninformed knowledge of religion and rejection of its corrupted structures,
> and now that supposed foundation is shaking. I am also irritated by Karai's
> insistence upon his perfection when his obvious misreading of various posts
> and
> other mistakes are evidence to the contrary. In fact, it is this insistence,
> that makes me reject him while at the same time I am interested in what he has
> to say.
>
>
> joseph (cor e form art) + (porat per ance ist)
> frank + lyn - mc + El + roy
>
> go shopping -> http://www.electrichands.com/shopindex.htm
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>
>
> Quoting Eryk Salvaggio <eryk@maine.rr.com>:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> What's interesting is, after removing myself from the pit for a while, I
>> pretty much agree with a lot of what Karei has to say. There are some
>> things I don't quite accept- that religion is concerned with the
>> liberation of individuals from mass programming, for example. From my
>> experience with religion- which is limited in actual practice to
>> Protestant Catholicism; the ideas are there- as they are in all
>> religion- but are taught, more often than not, by people who abuse it.
>> But the point that confusing "religion" with "abuse of religion" is
>> extremely valid. But I still have to wonder, if something very true is
>> corrupted, and the corrupted version is taught, is it still the truth? I
>> mean the reason I have criticized organized religion in the past has
>> been because of the corruption of very true ideas.
>>
>> I've also, from matters removed from the internet art world, been
>> considering the role of delusion in my own life, and it has been
>> abundant. I have gone on an "art vacation", that is, I've ceased
>> creating any work, or contemplating work, and have instead focused on
>> the means with which I interact with other human beings; and a great
>> deal of work remains to be done concerning the means of manipulating
>> others as a manner of achieving what I want. I certainly have a bit of a
>> fascist streak; and I don't intend to. I think a truly powerful person
>> would have a mastery over thier own intent, and making sure it lines up
>> with thier actions, consistently. That has got to be really hard, and I
>> am starting to even figure out how this can be done. The problem is that
>> even what I "want" can be so obscured by denials of wanting it; or
>> distractions of wanting things, based on my own concept of who I am. It
>> is interesting to have an actual epiphany concerning my own desires;
>> where they come from and why I have them, what gaps they are addressed
>> to fill.
>>
>> I don't really agree with a lot of past statements; or the methods I've
>> used to put them across. It is not because of Karei that I've realized
>> this- I realized it on my own, by looking at myself long enough, and
>> then realized that a lot of what I was starting to see matched up with
>> some of Karei's observations. Not all, however. Like, I don't see a
>> problem with any of the art I've made. I like the work I've done lately.
>> I think it's good, and I really don't see my own ego in it at all. It
>> could be better though. It does deal with the external world, and what I
>> have seen and how I have interpreted it. I do wonder if there is a
>> possible method for creating art that isn't based on abstraction, but
>> still addresses some kind of internal reflection. I think there must be.
>> Suggestions would be welcome.
>>
>> The other interesting thing I've noticed is that I can have an
>> immediate, very real understanding of things in the field of Zen and
>> Sufism, but then I memorize them. The memorization process is a very
>> cold killer, I believe, for any real internal action (and memorization
>> isn't the same as internalization.) When I memorize something, I turn it
>> into a "trick," which is also something Karei had pointed out before.
>> Having a "trick" isn't good enough I don't think, I mean you can't apply
>> these things in a dead way. I think it's really nice to say to myself
>> that I'm really good at living in the moment, that I am a good person
>> all the time, that my ambitions are pure and clean, but in actuality
>> they may not even be. I can't tell until I really look at them. It may
>> be true for other people, so I am just posting some observations on the
>> process as a sort of greetings, since I have signed back on to the list
>> now that I am more accepting, and not so frustrated with things and
>> hopefully not as willing to toss tantrums, no matter how indirect. I'm
>> extremely hesitant to say this, but I will, anyway, but I feel I owe
>> Karei an apology for my past behavior towards him/her. A large part of
>> my behavior was, as was stated, knee jerk reactions to positions that
>> put me on the defensive. I don't take criticism very well; it's an ego
>> thing, it stems a lot from insecurity, though, and this perception that
>> I was getting kicked in the teeth put me into a pretty negative state. I
>> kind of think it's up to the individual to decide when to look at
>> themselves, but at the same time I think it is such an urgent matter for
>> people.
>>
>> I think it can be a bad thing to be entirely comfortable with who I am;
>> in a way where I live with responses that are entirely appropriate. I
>> think after looking for a while I've finally rediscovered the means of
>> surprising myself (and naturally, not by way of thrill seeking or
>> novelty hunting, like, not by distractions but by clumsy attempts at
>> awareness), which is a really great experience, even if it is, at the
>> same time, completely terrifying. But sometimes it's also funny; its not
>> like getting crushed but like being lifted up. I mean, here are some
>> questions: How do I get back to a true zero, a blank state free of
>> external influences? I mean look at everything I have: gender, race,
>> economy, nationality, social standing. I mean, being born with a single
>> parent or married parents or a parent who dies young or who is
>> overbearing, these things can change who think one thinks they are and
>> block access to who one actually is. It is almost infinite how many
>> things stand in the way of "the face we have before we are born," and it
>> does, indeed, take a great deal more work than reading books on zen and
>> sufism and memorizing slogans such as that one. I mean I have to wonder
>> if I am alone in reading books like that and pretending like I know all
>> of it.
>>
>> So I'm not going to make any real art for a while, I think that's good
>> to do, I kind of want to blank out the storage bin in my head for self
>> concept. I'm no master, obviously, and probably even writing this email,
>> on the subject of "I," is a kind of arrogance, but it's not harming
>> others, I don't believe, so I am not very worried. I think there's a
>> level beyond a level, I mean you can say "I do A because of B, and I do
>> B because of C," but sometimes its good to say, "I do, and why?" and not
>> have a very linear explanation for it. I've come up with some surprising
>> concepts that way, I mean that's what surprises me about myself.
>>
>> Also, I do believe all people have the capacity to "become good" but I
>> think I'd rather define it as "becoming true," and I don't agree that
>> one either is or isn't. I think there is a process where a lot of it is
>> in between, and I think being in between can make some people really
>> beautiful, if only in pockets, because there will be pockets of being
>> true, followed by stumbling. I guess I don't want to condemn people for
>> stumbling, but I see Karei as creating a sort of spiritual ashphalt
>> where if you stumble on the truth, you scrape your knees. I think I have
>> preferred the soft grass approach, where people can stumble and lie down
>> for a while in the delusional world. I guess I have always figured that
>> if I stumble it means I am trying, but I do need to get up again as fast
>> as possible, instead of focusing on the nobility of "try."
>>
>> Anyway, that's just what I have been thinking about. I kind of feel like
>> Karei deserves a bit of credit, I mean, beyond arguments over whether
>> mailing lists are the place to approach this sort of thing, which is
>> definately arguable on some level, but if it has had some effect on
>> what's been happening lately [and it's entirely possible] then I think
>> the point is mute.
>>
>>
>> -e.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
>> -> post: list@rhizome.org
>> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
>> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
>> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
>> +
>> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
>> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

DISCUSSION

FW: [eu-gene] [an] Important notice about eu-gene


----------
> From: "generative.net" <eu-gene@generative.net>
> Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:02 +0000
> To: ivan@ivanpope.com
> Subject: [eu-gene] [an] Important notice about eu-gene
>
>
> We are sending you this message because you may have posted
> a message to the eu-gene mailing list at some point within
> the last six months.
>
> In the last few days, generative.net has suffered serious
> server problems, meaning that we have had to move to a
> completely new server. Unfortunately, we have been unable
> to recover our eu-gene subscribers list, and we may not
> be able to until after the new year.
>
> Currently, we have a new eu-gene list with no subscribers.
> If you would still like to be part of the eu-gene list,
> please resubscribe yourself to this new list. You can do
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>
> We also recognise that there were a great deal of subscribers
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> http://www.generative.net/mailman/listinfo/eu-gene
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> Thank you for your kind attention and understanding.
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> Best wishes for Christmas and the new year,
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>
> --
> The eu-gene admin
> admin@generative.net
>

DISCUSSION

Fw: Ever felt there are too many images in the world?


Ever felt there are too many images in the world?----- Original Message ---=
--
From: e-bulletin
To: Film and Video Umbrella
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 12:37 PM
Subject: Ever felt there are too many images in the world?

TRISTERO
www.tristero.co.uk

Simon Faithfull

For his Tristero residency, Simon Faithfull has created Image-Klenz

DISCUSSION

Re: yawn...


> From: "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com>

> how? right now i'm fueling their bs by even discussing it. rhizome has
> made clear again and again that if you don't like it your only
> alternative is to go to RARE.

RARE dont exist
Ivan

--
Ivan Pope
ivan@ivanpope.com
www.ivanpope.com

"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death"
Hunter S. Thompson