Ivan Pope
Since the beginning
Works in Brighton United States of America

BIO
In the place where analogue and digital overlap, that's why you will find me in the kitchen at parties.
Everything is at my site, http://blog.ivanpope.com
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DISCUSSION

Re: If I'm already drowning in banality, why do I need more of it (N.C. Mountain Fair)


Michael,
Well, I do agree with all of what you say. But it all depends on context.
Trivia can be converted into art. I collect all sorts of meaningless trash,
keep it, wait for the day when it will fall into place.
But, trivia is not in itself art. When I got the posting from Curt I read it
and then wondered how I was supposed to respond to it. As it didn't contain
any overt clues to its intent, I went back and looked at Curt's previous
postings to the list. And yes, he has posted occasionally small bits of
detritus (in the non pejorative sense). But the previous postings didn't
really give any pointers to posting an announcement for a county fair.
I scanned the posting again for the punchline, the moment of madness that
reveals the intent.
But came there none. So I took it as a promotional posting for whatever
reason and reacted as such. Overreacted, maybe.
Then Curt comes back with a posting that seems to imply that the mote is in
my own eye. Now, this posting is more interesting.
Curt's quote comes from McLuhan via Wired in 1996 and seems to have been
used on Rhizome before. Curt attributes it to Marshall Mathers McLuhan,
which is a fun sort of crossover name, I guess. And he affixes a link to a
mildly interesting and mildly related web page.
So I go back and read some of Curt's previous postings, because I didn't
have him down as the sort of person to play these head games. And I find the
quote that I throw back at Curt about drowning in banality.
I think it comes down to this. It's not up to me or anyone else to call
anyone's approach to work on whether or not it is art. But anyone making art
must (and in this case, does) just deal with what it throws up. End of
story.

Cheers,
Ivan

BTW, Michael, when you say this 'the offending article represents a bit of
found art ' I disagree that there is such a thing as 'found art'.

> Ivan
> I think that although here you do deploy Curt's quote
> quite effectively against him, there is a third
> alternative which is neither irony nor banality and
> that is that none of us who make work do it entirely
> with our conscious minds and that all sorts of weird
> and wonderful stuff makes its way in there eventually
> at some remove.
> In a way your web cam pieces,Ivan, are about
> transforming the banal into the extraordinary.
> I seem to have spent my entire life so far raising
> kids, with concomitant restrictions on my freedom of
> movement and other activities , so for a five year
> period in the not too distant past I hardly went
> anywhere except to shop, feed ducks and see Disney
> films.
> Equally since my mother's death last year I've become
> quite gripped by bits of paper that surface in my
> Dad's house -letters from the Methodist Church my Mum
> went to, shopping lists, utter trivia.
> At some point and in some way I think this experience
> surfaces in the things I make and what I do
> *consciously* want is to be neither ironic or
> sentimental about it.
> Now you could reply with justification that this is
> fair enough, but that I don't post extracts from the
> Harlow Citizen small ads on Rhizome.
> True - but the above leads me to understand why
> without a particle of irony, or feeling that it is
> banal, or without some horrible "tell us the good news
> about real folk" feeling, the offending article
> represents a bit of found art which I personally found
> more engaging than at least some of the posts which
> find their way onto the list purporting to be 'about'
> art.
> Lenin wrote a thing once which is both blindingly
> obvious and profound -"Everything is connected"
> I think this is true and that artists should be able
> to extract a wider meaning from even the most marginal
> and insignificant thing.
> best
> michael
>
> --- Ivan Pope <ivan@ivanpope.com> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Curt Cloninger" <curt@lab404.com>
> > Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: N.C. Mountain State Fair
> > to Celebrate 10th
> > Birthday in 2003
> >
> >
> > > "You have not studied Joyce or Baudelaire yet, or
> > you would have no
> > > problems in understanding my procedure. I have no
> > theories whatever
> > > about anything. I make observations by way of
> > discovering contours,
> > > lines of force, and pressures. I satirize at all
> > times, and my
> > > hyperboles are as nothing compared to the events
> > to which they refer."
> > >
> > > - Marshall Mathers McLuhan
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://k10k.net/wulffmorgenthaler/large/370_carpet_covers_hal.gif
> > >
> > From: "Curt Cloninger" <curt@lab404.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 10:24 PM
> > Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: towards a more ambient art
> >
> > > Not that everything has to be Tolstoy. But when
> > so few things even
> > > attempt to be Tolstoy and so many things are
> > content to be Bazooka
> > > Joe Bubble Gum Cartoons, it gets kind of boring
> > for ye olde art
> > > patron. The Cliff's Notes artist would say, "I'm
> > just echoing the
> > > meaninglessness and frivolity of our post-modern
> > culture." Well why
> > > on earth would you want to do that? If I'm
> > already drowning in
> > > banality, why do I need more of it?
> >
> > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> > out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

DISCUSSION

If I'm already drowning in banality, why do I need more of it (N.C. Mountain Fair)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Curt Cloninger" <curt@lab404.com>
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: N.C. Mountain State Fair to Celebrate 10th
Birthday in 2003

> "You have not studied Joyce or Baudelaire yet, or you would have no
> problems in understanding my procedure. I have no theories whatever
> about anything. I make observations by way of discovering contours,
> lines of force, and pressures. I satirize at all times, and my
> hyperboles are as nothing compared to the events to which they refer."
>
> - Marshall Mathers McLuhan
>
> http://k10k.net/wulffmorgenthaler/large/370_carpet_covers_hal.gif
>
From: "Curt Cloninger" <curt@lab404.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 10:24 PM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: towards a more ambient art

> Not that everything has to be Tolstoy. But when so few things even
> attempt to be Tolstoy and so many things are content to be Bazooka
> Joe Bubble Gum Cartoons, it gets kind of boring for ye olde art
> patron. The Cliff's Notes artist would say, "I'm just echoing the
> meaninglessness and frivolity of our post-modern culture." Well why
> on earth would you want to do that? If I'm already drowning in
> banality, why do I need more of it?

DISCUSSION

Re: N.C. Mountain State Fair to Celebrate 10th Birthday in 2003


Sorry, did I miss something there? I mean, I read the whole release and
looked at the pictures and everything. I considered irony, spoof, conceptual
net art.
But I just dont see it: Rhizome/North Carolina Mountain State Fair.
I am just not fucking interested.
Cheers,
Ivan

> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: N.C. Mountain State Fair to Celebrate 10th Birthday in
> 2003
>
> http://www.ncagr.com/markets/fairs/mtnfair/sitemap.htm
> http://www.ncagr.com/markets/fairs/mtnfair/images/spongebob.jpg
>
> N.C. Mountain State Fair to Celebrate 10th Birthday in 2003
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> WEDNESDAY, JUNE 25, 2003
>
> CONTACT: Bill Edmondson, Manager
> (828) 687-1414 x201
>
> FLETCHER-The 10th edition of the N.C. Mountain State Fair will run
> Sept. 5-14 at the Western N.C. Ag Center in Fletcher, and plans are
> shaping up for a record-breaking fair. A combination of great food,
> rides, entertainment and more await fairgoers coming to the annual
> event.
>
> "We have a good mix of new entertainment plus all the favorites we've
> come to love during the first nine years of the fair," says manager
> Bill Edmondson. "Folks will find all their favorite foods, rides,
> exhibits and livestock, and we've added even more for 2003. We'll
> feature two nights of monster truck racing, have lumberjacks
> performing daily and we've brought back the popular Mooternity Ward."
>
> Competition categories are increased for 2003, with even more prize
> money available. More than $78,000 in premium money was paid out in
> 2002, the highest amount ever.
>
> Entertainment in the McGough Arena will include the monster trucks,
> the Mountain State Fair Clogging Championship, two days of gospel
> singing competition and premium concerts by Avalon with opening act
> Everyday Sunday, Ty Herndon and John Anderson.
>
> Musical entertainment will be available on the fairgrounds each day
> at the Mountain Music Festival, the gospel stage and on the
> hospitality stage. Special musical guests will be the U.S. Navy
> Country Current Band performing on the first weekend.
>
> Ticket prices remain $5 for adults, $2 for seniors and children 6-12,
> and kids five and under get in free. Discounted advance ticket sales
> will begin August 4 at area Ingles Stores, at the WNC Farmers' Market
> and the WNC Ag Center.
>
> Tickets may also be purchased in advance at the fair website
> www.mountainfair.org. Half price ride tickets can also be purchased
> at the same locations prior to the start of the fair. A complete
> daily schedule of the 10th N.C. Mountain State Fair is also available
> at the website, or call (828) 687-1414.
>
> The WNC Ag Center is located in Fletcher, NC, at exit 9 from
> Interstate 26. This is the Asheville Airport exit, and is about
> halfway between Asheville and Hendersonville.
>
> http://www.ncagr.com/markets/fairs/mtnfair/sitemap.htm
> http://www.ncagr.com/markets/fairs/mtnfair/images/spongebob.jpg
>
> _
> _
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

DISCUSSION

Re: what bad taste?


I am amazed that they were ever proposed in the first place. What state is
going to let two crazy mixed up artists loose as official War Artists.
At the same time, I think that their attack on McQueen is in incredibly poor
taste. So they didn't get selected, so they attack the artist who did.
Ho, hum. Storm in teacup as usual.
Cheers,
Ivan

--
Ivan Pope
ivan@ivanpope.com
www.ivanpope.com
www.tochki-inc.com

"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death"
Hunter S. Thompson
----- Original Message -----
From: "ruth catlow" <ruth.catlow@furtherfield.org>
To: <list@rhizome.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 1:40 PM
Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: what bad taste?

> The Chapman Brothers have been dropped as Britain's official artists in
> Iraq over questions of bad taste. They raise some very pertinent issues
> in this article.
>
> http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/media/story.jsp?storyB2111
>
> ruth
> http://www.furtherfield.org
>
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

DISCUSSION

Web cam art - mailing list


Web cam art
I have started a mailing list to try to gather anybody interested in the use
and abuse of webcams as part of art practice. Its early days, all interested
parties are encouraged to come along and see where this takes us. Please
feel free to repost this information. Thanks, Ivan

Webcamart
To discuss the use of webcam and webcam imagery in visual art. Use of images
from webcams, integration of webcam image streams in net art, webcam
installations, webcam performance, webcam hac*ing. Whatever. Technical
discussion of webcam and associated subjects encouraged from an artist
perspective.

You can subscribe at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webcamart

Or by posting a message to:
webcamart-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

If you want to post to the list, post to:
webcamart@yahoogroups.com

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List owner: webcamart-owner@yahoogroups.com

--
Ivan Pope
ivan@ivanpope.com

http://www.ivanpope.com
http://www.tochki-inc.com

Now showing two webcam installations
http://ivanpope.com/cams/