Ivan Pope
Since the beginning
Works in Brighton United States of America

BIO
In the place where analogue and digital overlap, that's why you will find me in the kitchen at parties.
Everything is at my site, http://blog.ivanpope.com
Discussions (225) Opportunities (0) Events (0) Jobs (0)
DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Fwd: FW: Digital Artists: Call for Entries


Sorry, I just had to go out for some air. It gets a bit claustrophobic in
here sometimes.
:-)
Ivan

--
Ivan Pope
ivan@ivanpope.com
www.ivanpope.com
www.tochki-inc.com

"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death"
Hunter S. Thompson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Szpakowski" <szpako@yahoo.com>
To: "furtherfield" <info@furtherfield.org>; "joseph mcelroy"
<joseph@electrichands.com>; <list@rhizome.org>
Cc: "t.whid" <twhid@mteww.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: Re: Fwd: FW: Digital Artists: Call for Entries

> Hi
> I just wanted to add my threepennyworth.
> I often disagree with T Whid but I always read his
> posts. They're informed, intelligent and often funny.
> I was *deeply* unhappy with the tone of his recent
> post and I said so.
> He replied in some detail and as far as I'm concerned
> we've said our pieces on this matter & we simply
> disagree. I've no wish to pursue endless pesonalised
> wrangling - my preference as always is for fierce but
> courteous debate on the issues.
> best
> michael
>
> --- furtherfield <info@furtherfield.org> wrote:
> > Hi Joseph,
> >
> > I kind of feel that T.Whid has always been one of
> > the more polite dudes on
> > rhizome, not actively attacking someone to make
> > himself feel better. That's
> > not his buzz - not like some of the other rhizome
> > dead-heads who used the
> > identity of 'Karei' to personally attack users on
> > the list as an in-house
> > joke on the list users - kool eh!
> >
> > That's why I was surprised...but I am beginning to
> > get the gist that it was
> > not personal - I hope.
> >
> > Also, when we visited New York recently, T.Whid was
> > one of the least snotty
> > and more openly friendly out of most of the rhizome
> > list users that we met
> > (other than you good self of course).
> >
> > marc
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > May I point out to one and all that the extent of
> > a certain t.whid's
> > brilliant critique of our own work consisted almost
> > entirely of the words
> > >
> > > "crappy work"
> > >
> > > <applause><applause>
> > >
> > > Q: What do you get when you cross a hippopotamus
> > and a black hawk?
> > > A: A Hippocritic dressed in black.
> > >
> > > <applause><applause>
> > >
> > > joseph
> > >
> > >
> > > t.whid wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---- Michael Szpakowski <szpako@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > See, T. - I think you're being just a bit
> > disingenuous
> > > > > here.
> > > >
> > > > how? I've been honest the entire time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > All of the people involved in praising Jess's
> > work
> > > > > yesterday have posted rigorous, critical and
> > closely
> > > > > argued stuff over the last few months.
> > > >
> > > > no argument, i was responding specifically to
> > the posts i quoted in
> > > > my
> > > > original post.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Could it be that your reaction to the posts
> > has more
> > > > > to do with the fact that many of those posting
> > have
> > > > > either explicitly or implicitly adopted
> > positions on
> > > > > this list that are opposed to your idea of
> > what
> > > > > constitutes good or serious art.
> > > >
> > > > no, that could not be.
> > > >
> > > > > In an offlist mail to me you denied that you
> > had
> > > > > accused us of insincerity and yet the only
> > other
> > > > > possible reading of your post is that you
> > believe that
> > > > > you have some sort of privileged access as to
> > what
> > > > > constitutes the worthwhile.
> > > >
> > > > who's being disingenuous? I only posted that the
> > specific remarks
> > > > quoted in the post where not serious art
> > discussion but rather mere
> > > > back-slapping. I have no privilege other than
> > being able to read the
> > > > english language. I had no doubt that the
> > back-slapping was genuine,
> > > > my
> > > > critique was with the depth of the praise, not
> > that it wasn't genuine
> > > > or deserved.
> > > >
> > > > > Tell us please, just who *are* the Sunday
> > painters,
> > > > > the dilettantes of your post?
> > > >
> > > > people who aren't on this list. most on this
> > list don't fit into this
> > > > category. that was my critique, we are
> > collectively better than
> > > > that and i was hoping to raise the level of
> > discussion.
> > > >
> > > > > If you didn't think Jess's piece was any good
> > then why
> > > > > not address *that* rather than impugning the
> > motives
> > > > > of those who did?
> > > >
> > > > this is ridiculous. my opinions regarding Jess'
> > piece have nothing to
> > > > do with my post. i didn't want to mix up
> > whatever my reaction to the
> > > > piece might be and my criticism of the remarks
> > surrounding it.
> > > >
> > > > > I'd be more than happy to take part in an
> > extended
> > > > > and detailed discussion about the actual
> > artistic
> > > > > issues involved.
> > > >
> > > > that's all fine and good, but my point was to
> > address the level of
> > > > critical discussion and i think i'm through with
> > it.
> > > >
> > > > take care,
> > > > <twhid>
> > > > http://www.mteww.com
> > > > </twhid>
> > > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > > +
> > > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms
> > set out in the
> > > Membership Agreement available online at
> > http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set
> > out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>
>
> =====
> *DISCLAIMER:This email any advice it contains is for the use is that of
the sender and does not bind the precautions to minimise authority in any
way. If you copy or distribute this by software viruses email. We have taken
the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise that you carry out
your own virus attachment to this message. Internet email that you observe
this lack is not a secure communication medium, and we advise of security
when emailing us. District Postmaster.
http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/ *
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
> http://calendar.yahoo.com
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

DISCUSSION

Grist to Eryk's mill


Montage is not child porn, artist tells court
May 28 2003

A montage of a girl with superimposed images of an erect penis and the capt=
ion "Please don't taste" was art and not child pornography, a Melbourne cou=
rt heard yesterday.

Contemporary artist Glen Walls, of St Kilda, has pleaded not guilty to a ch=
arge of possessing a photograph which depicts a child - apparently under th=
e age of 16 - in an indecent manner.

A second charge of producing a material which depicts a child in an indecen=
t manner was struck off by Magistrate Lisa Hannan because of a lack of evid=
ence.

In the Melbourne Magistrate's Court, Walls said he had created the montage =
which police found in his home last year for an exhibition at the Wessel & =
O'Connor art gallery in New York, which also featured the work of controver=
sial American photographer Robert Maplethorpe.

Walls denied the montage was created for prurient or sexual purposes.

He said the phrase "Please don't taste" was a "play on words" and the artwo=
rk was a "play on the image of the 50s ideal of the perfect existence".

Prosecutor Peter Jones said the montage featured a "male person with his ha=
nd on an erect penis in the direction of a young child".

"How can you possibly say that's artistic?" Mr Jones asked. "Why did you ma=
ke that?"

Walls replied: "It's a statement. It's making a political and social statem=
ent in regards to the perfect existence."

Mr Jones asked whether the phrase "please don't taste" was meant to suggest=
the girl "might be thinking about fellating the male penis".

"No," Walls said.

Walls, who won the $40,000 Roche Contemporary Art Prize in 2001, told the c=
ourt he was influenced by artists such as Jeff Koons, Andy Warhol and Rober=
t Maplethorpe.

His lawyer Phillip Priest, QC, said his client was a man who was internatio=
nally regarded and had impeccable character and credentials.

He said the montage was of artistic merit and did not depict an "actual" pe=
rson.

"They (the prosecution) have to prove there was a minor and the minor was u=
nder the age of 16 - that is incapable of proof," Mr Priest said.

But Mr Jones said one could tell the girl was under 16 by the size of her h=
ands and eyes, the way she was dressed and the playhorse on which she was s=
itting.

"It is so obvious the child is under 16, she is one, two, three if that," h=
e said.

Magistrate Lisa Hannan reserved her decision until Thursday.

AAP

--
Ivan Pope
ivan@ivanpope.com
www.ivanpope.com
www.tochki-inc.com

"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death"
Hunter S. Thompson

DISCUSSION

Re: Re: Re: Re: curating the curators


>
>> neil jenkins (devoid) once told me you could tap into broadband using
>> something like some basic cabling and a empty box of pringles.
>> Seeing as my connection is my biggest outgoing - that's what I'd like
>> to
>> know how to set up - preferably without getting arrested of course
>> (wimp)
>
> Umm, Pringles. I belive these come with a-pinch-of-salt-flavor. Are you sure
> this was not the snack of choice as the cabling was installed? Then again, the
> Captain Crunch whistle made some noise once upon a time...
>
You can make a wireless antenna out of an empty pringles can. I guess you
can use this to pick up someone elses wireless bandwidth, if they have no
security, and away you go. http://www.netscum.com/~clapp/wireless.html
Cheers, Ivan

DISCUSSION

Re: Re: curating the curators


>> Although I can't see into anybody's soul, I disagree. It's
>> definitely not about the money, because there's no great money in it
>> unless your name is Hirst.

> I really don't know these artists that you are talking about who are fame-
> mongering. Particularly in the UK, people are too busy balancing art &
> the tescos budget to bother about which curators christmas card list
> their on.

I think this is one of the problems that a lot of artists have: they dont
worry about which curators and journalists and art lovers and collectors
Xmas card lists they are on, because they are far too busy balancing their
part time work with making some art around it. But there are artists who do
care about who in the professional art world knows they exist (you dont even
have to be on their Xmas card list). If they dont know you exist, then how
are you going to carve out more support to make more work, to really get
where you want to be?

> One might remix it, "We are the
>> curators, and we are the promoters of the cool stuff." If it's about
>> the money, networked artist collectives can apply for and
>> re-distribute grant money from governments the same as brick & mortar
>> galleries. Turbulence, Low-Res, and even our beloved Rhizome are
>> already there.
> True, but (and with the exception of turbulence who I think are the most
> open and diverse of curators) I think we need to look at a) why the have
> chosen the projects they have chosen and b) how successful these
> projects have been (as I said before) as artworks that will attract,
> endure and if 'deserve' the funds. My feeling is that currently the remit
> of many of these these grants etc are watered down versions of the
> conditions set by offline institution/curators as to what is 'hip' and 'net'.

And our beloved Furtherfield are already there. Good luck to all of them and
to everyone who ever had a dream and took some money off the state to get it
organised. But shame on everyone who then made a career out of it, ending up
needing an annual fix in order to pay the mortgage (thats the bureaucrats,
not the artists).

>> If it's about going down in the academic record, that's a tougher nut
>> to crack. But there are other ways to be remembered that are no less
>> valid. The White Stripes are the new Stooges. How do I know the
>> Stooges? Because there is more than one agreed upon artistic
>> cultural archive.
> cultural VOOOOOOOIDDD - no idea what you are talking about here,
> sorry:-)

Oh, shame on you :)
Cheers,
Ivan

DISCUSSION

Re: more info on mouchette performance


Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: more info on mouchette performance

> for those that are curious but couldn't make it.
>
> found this in my referrers:
>
> http://www.akairways.com/mouchette.shtml
>

If I am curious, my curiosity goes like this:

Who is/was Mouchette?
Who has taken over Mouchette?

I hesitate to ask hard and fast questions in case I am falling into a trap
of asking about a Kafka's 'The Castle' situation.

Ivan