Ivan Pope
Since the beginning
Works in Brighton United States of America

BIO
In the place where analogue and digital overlap, that's why you will find me in the kitchen at parties.
Everything is at my site, http://blog.ivanpope.com
Discussions (225) Opportunities (0) Events (0) Jobs (0)
DISCUSSION

Re: Buy Nothing Day


Rhizome.org: Net Art News> Buy Nothing Day
>What better way to celebrate the day after Thanksgiving, which is both Buy
Nothing Day and the biggest shopping day in the Western World,
>than by enjoying some rebellious tactical media? -- Rachel Greene

It is not the 'day after Thanksgiving' to most of the worlds populace. While
Europe is certainly in the Western World, yesterday was not 'the biggest
shopping day' in Europe. Most of the world doesn't have a clue when
Thanksgiving falls. Nor do they care. Is Net Art News and American service?
Remember, strange as it may seem, most of us don't know when Thanksgiving
day or Labor day is. We don't know what a nickel or a dime is. And we don't
care very much.
Cheers,
Ivan

----- Original Message -----
From: Net Art News
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:06 AM
Subject: Buy Nothing Day

November 25, 2002
launch rhizome | contact us | support rhizome | info

Buy Nothing Day
What better way to celebrate the day after Thanksgiving, which is both Buy
Nothing Day and the biggest shopping day in the Western World, than by
enjoying some rebellious tactical media? We've got just the caper: a
subvertisement contest sponsored by the Banner Art Collective. Peruse the
entries, or enter your own subversive banner in the contest by November 28.
The winning entry, which will be announced the 29th, will win a prize of
$0.00 (zero US dollars), as one would expect from a parodic, semiotic
contest such as this one. There weren't many subvertisements posted as of
press date, but one, 'Apocolyspe Soon,' was amusing. -- Rachel Greene
http://www.bannerart.org/

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DISCUSSION

Re: Re:


----- Original Message -----
From: valery grancher <vgranger@imaginet.fr>

> You cannot make a non profit organization by starting to say it is a
> collaborative project dedicated to a community and then when it is
becoming
> more and more important on international level after having accepted money
> contributions worldwilde for such amount and then many art contribution in
> artbase...Really you cannot say now, you see now it is my artwork and this
> is a convergence ....

Firstly, in the artworld, I don't understand where this word 'cannot' comes
from. There is no 'cannot'. Things that you think 'cannot' happen are the
meat and potatoes of artists, and credit to us for that.
Secondly, as Mark states, he has not claimed Rhizome as 'his' artwork. He
didn't even write the 'social sculpture' text.
Thirdly, even if he did, there should be no problem with Mark asserting
whatever he wants. It is for the viewer to decide whether his claims have
merits. They would not have merits simply by their assertion.

> me I don't and I cannot accept to see my contributions done for a
community
> start to be the tools for a personnal project ...In this case I have the
> feeling to be abused ...

Well, I suggest you get off your high horse. Every human activity is a
personal project of some sort. Everyone has an agenda. If we want to engage,
we are in other people's projects.
Rather than simply assert high dudgeon, it might be useful to interrogate
the claim that Rhizome is 'social sculpture'.

Cheers,
Ivan

DISCUSSION

Re: Re:


> From: "valery grancher" <vgranger@imaginet.fr>

>
> and I can quote this sentence from Mark:
>> i agree with tim's response to valery. rhizome.org is first and foremost a
>> nonprofit organization, but lately i've also started to think of it as a
>> social sculpture,
>
> from his email yesterday !!!
>
> so ? it is clear
Well, I think of Rhizome as my wife, but that dont make it so. Come on, even
if Mark was shouting from the rooftops that Rhizome was a personal art
project where he had installed a bunch of zombies to have creative
conversations, that dont make it so. Get off your high horse and tell us
your view of Rhizome. Cheers, Ivan

DISCUSSION

Re: "digital poetry" vs net art


> From: ruth catlow <ruth.catlow@furtherfield.org>

>
> lewis lacook wrote:
>> me, i just want a net art that is truly an art fitted to its medium...i
> want a net art that literally requires the net work in order to manifest
> itself...
>
> I think this gives the institutions and the structures of the net work
> far too much respect. Isn't this like saying that we only want art that
> requires the cubey white walls of a gallery? Why are you so eager to
> squash your squishy, expressive, human flesh sourced imaginations into
> the predetermined and rigid labyrinths of mathematically determined
> structures?
My reading of lewis's statement is that he calls for network art that
fundamentallly uses the network. i.e. not network art that could just as
easily be displayed on a disconnected computer in a gallery. But pieces that
use the network in some way to become themselves. And this should not
necessarily mean the network of wires and routers and IP protocols but the
network of information or the network of human activity. There are of course
many works that do this already, so Im not saying much ... and, Im not
claiming value for this approach. But I think to equate this with wanting
art that fits in a white cube gallery is missing a point? Maybe there's a
May68 type slogan here: The Network Is Not A Gallery Cheers, Ivan

DISCUSSION

Re: Doh!


> From: "Wally Keeler" <poetburo@sympatico.ca>

>> Would you extend the same kind offer of assistance to the Palestinians who
>> seem to find their country occupied?
>> Cheers,
>
> If they refrain from targetting children and it also includes suicide
> bombers attacking Syria for its occupation of Lebanon.
OK Wally, fair enough, I missed this post in the welter of Rhizome stuff. So
for all the years leading up to the current intifada the US should have been
supplying the Palestinians with money and arms (stingers, mines, training
etc). Which would have of course been to liberate the whole of Palestine,
surely? Cheers, Ivan