Dirk Vekemans
Since 2005
Works in Kessel-Lo Belgium

ARTBASE (1)
PORTFOLIO (1)
BIO
born in 1962 in Lier, Belgium.
studied filology at Louvain, Belgium.

worked a lot in bars and restaurants before i became obsessivly addicted to producing stuff on computers.

i once won a design contest of cgi-magazine and they let me go to New York for four days, that was nice.

i think in terms of writing mostly (or programming, but those are very similar processes for me)

painting is a very different process and i'm very bad at it but i do it anyway because i like the differences it produces and i like the freshness of amateurism, i guess.

what i produce new media-wise is also very much influenced by my daily practice of webdesign and programming with its concerns of usability and the pragmatic approach it implies.

Discussions (292) Opportunities (0) Events (1) Jobs (0)
DISCUSSION

Re: draw-something


> Namens Zev Robinson

> If the computer can simulate at least the perception of
> randomness, so that, for example, the viewer cannot which
> image will come up next, then I can live with that.

Well in my PCU part of my Cathedral, for instance, i can't: for now i have to use pseudo-random, because i haven't found a solution yet, but it is conceptually wrong. The idea of the thing (however stupid that may be) calls for it to be(come) exactly what the words about it say: a view (visualisation) of the Cathedral over time. That might include true randomness, it certainly may *not* include pseudo-random sequences, not even if no-one would ever see the difference (which i doubt, in this case)

> Our experience, tho, is that the difficult part isn't so much
> in the scripting (easy for me to say since it's Adrian
> Marshall who does the
> scripting) but in molding it into a creative vision,
> understanding what we want to do, see how it works
> audio-visually, deciding on the parameters of the randomness,
> on the nature of the imagery used, and so on and so on.

Earlier discussions on this list have shown statements like these to be rather tricky. I take it you're not downplaying the programmers part in the art, but some of us believe you cannot just 'outsource' your scripting part to someone who has little to say in the conceptual work. Perhaps this little random topic can be a good example of how the minute decisions you make as a programmer do matter to the conceptual soundness of the thing. Personally, i've learned some (web)programming the hard way and i'm by no means a full fledge professionally trained programmer, but i prefer to hack my own stuff together no matter how much time i loose in the process. Entrusting a skilled programmer with the task would be like writing a poem in Dutch and have someone translate it to English and then claim i'm an English poet.

But i'm a literary person, a fetishist obstinate self-indulgent fool insisting authorship includes dealing with every aspect of the thing. As such however i vainly venture this kind of approach can be meaningful for the small audience i aim for, even in these rapidly deteriorating conditions. I'm dead serious about that.

Let us not conjecture (συμϐαλλώμεθα) at random (εἰκῆ) about (περὶ) the greatest (μεγίστων) things.
Heraclitus said that. Don't know if the Greek comes through. The urgency is not about power or control and now that i'm rambling anyway: not solely about art either, its about finding a perfect expression at the right time. It matters because its about choice, a global choice if you want, so if we're not sure we need to find a way to be more so. (The choice has long been made for us but we need an awareness of it so we know what, if anything, to do, ...)

Ah forget it, told you it was a bad sign...

dv

> I don't know any of this for sure either, tho, and nobody
> else does either.
>
> Zev
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dirk Vekemans" <dv@vilt.net>
> To: "'Zev Robinson'" <zr@zrdesign.co.uk>
> Cc: "'Rhizome Raw list'" <list@rhizome.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:55 PM
> Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: draw-something
>
>
> >
> > Hi there Zev:
> > once again, you're talking zen. These are pleasant thoughts though.
> > So yes & perhaps if you love it you get to know it in the
> end, as a reward
> > for letting it happen.
> > Miracles, or tales thereoff, always include some form of
> randomness, too.
> >
> > But the point is (i think, do correct me if i'm wrong,
> cause i really
> > don't
> > know any of this for sure): when you're programming,
> mostly either you
> > want
> > to know exactly what will happen or you want to be able to
> count on it
> > that
> > what will happen in the program is not determined by your
> previous code.
> > So
> > you want it to be a random sequence. But that's where the
> problems start.
> > First you need to deal with pseudo-random, i. e. seemingly
> random things
> > that only act truly random for a given amount of cycles
> before it starts
> > reiterating. When that happens the sequence can only be
> 'just' another
> > predetermined, programmed cycle.
> >
> > Pseudo-random is not a major problem unless you need to program very
> > important encryption software. If you're involved in such a
> thing, you can
> > make your fortune by coming up with the 'cheepest'
> algorhythm giving the
> > highest degree of randomness. Cheep in processing time to
> run the darn
> > thing, that is.
> >
> > Pseudo-random is also a problem, i think, for those of us
> who want to
> > make
> > works of art that include randomness in its concept. In some cases
> > pseudo-random won't do conceptually, because it would be
> cheating on the
> > idea you're trying to present. In some of those hard cases,
> you might
> > solve
> > the problem by reverting to external inputs like radio static of the
> > degeneration rate of radio-activity. Alan Sondheim uses a
> 100 year old
> > instrument called a Crookes spinthariscope for it. They sell these
> > beautiful
> > instruments as plastic leaded toys these days:
> > http://www.unitednuclear.com/spinthariscope.htm
> > But in a few scenario's using such equipment, or a random
> generating
> > service
> > like http://www.random.org/ might not be possible.
> >
> > And when you have finally succesfully included pure
> randomness in your
> > artwork, or when you're satisfied with the amount of
> imperfection, you
> > still
> > need to make sense of it (ok:some artists don't, but
> because of the random
> > thing they'll never know for sure just how meaningless it
> is). You don't
> > need to solve the riddle of the universe at that point, but
> you want to
> > have
> > a clear idea of what you're doing, how the random part
> strikes the balance
> > with the programmed part including the personal, stylish part every
> > programmer puts in her programming and their personal
> assesment of what is
> > beautiful, valuable, aesthetically pleasing or any
> perversions thereoff.
> > So
> > if you ask yourself what is your take on random, you are
> perhaps required
> > to
> > ask yourself a question that goes to the core of what
> you're trying to
> > accomplish. It's about how much control you want to have
> over what you are
> > doing, the inner/outer balance of it, the IOwhy of an artist.
> >
> > There are times when you don't want to be face to face with these
> > questions.
> > I can write poetry or nag on art like this for ages without getting
> > emotionally affected when i don't want that. Merely calling the
> > Math.random
> > class in my actionScript sometimes gives me the creeps,
> involuntarily.
> >
> > I can't predict it, but when that happens, it take it to be a sign.
> >
> > greetings,
> > dv
> >
> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> >> Van: Zev Robinson [mailto:zr@zrdesign.co.uk]
> >> Verzonden: woensdag 11 januari 2006 22:30
> >> Aan: Dirk Vekemans; 'Pall Thayer'; 'Rob Myers'
> >> CC: 'Rhizome Raw list'
> >> Onderwerp: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: draw-something
> >>
> >> Dirk,
> >>
> >> I love randomness. Much of my art work is based on
> >> randomness. Much of my life has been affected by seemingly
> >> random events and coincidences. I don't know where I'd be
> >> without randomness. I don't want it solved or defined.
> >> Maybe randomness is an illusion, and it's all preordained,
> >> but I don't care, I still love randomness.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Zev
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Dirk Vekemans" <dv@vilt.net>
> >> To: "'Pall Thayer'" <p_thay@alcor.concordia.ca>; "'Rob Myers'"
> >> <rob@robmyers.org>
> >> Cc: "'Rhizome Raw list'" <list@rhizome.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:22 PM
> >> Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: draw-something
> >>
> >>
> >> > For me randomness, the concept, is a nightmare, it's
> >> quicksand, it is the
> >> > one thing i can think of that's worse then (pick any
> random worst
> >> > horror).
> >> > The day Superman solves random we'll all go to heaven (yes,
> >> even you
> >> > manik).
> >> >
> >> > Try it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random
> >> > They (we) can't even get the wikipedia article straightened out.
> >> >
> >> > dv
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> >> >> Van: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]
> >> >> Namens Pall Thayer
> >> >> Verzonden: woensdag 11 januari 2006 15:55
> >> >> Aan: Rob Myers
> >> >> CC: Rhizome Raw list
> >> >> Onderwerp: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: draw-something
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Rob,
> >> >> I was looking at this and find it interesting. Thanks for
> >> >> sharing the code with us. There are a couple of questions
> >> >> that come to mind. I'd like to know if you have any plans of
> >> >> making the lines more "pencil"- like by creating a more
> >> >> expressive line. I feel this is an issue that has been
> >> >> largely overlooked by people working with automated drawing
> >> >> processes. They tend to look really flat and dead because of it.
> >> >> AARON, for instance, suffers from a severe case of flatness
> >> >> that could be easily cured by some simple, maybe even random,
> >> >> variation in line thickness and length. There's an
> >> >> interesting project called Freestyle that's working on this
> >> >> (among other things) at http://
> >> >> freestyle.sourceforge.net/index.php (source available).
> >> >>
> >> >> Also, I noticed this on your blog:
> >> >> "The shapes are random. The colours are random. At worst I'm
> >> >> showing one in every three of these images.
> >> >>
> >> >> Randomness gives good results far more often than it should.
> >> >> Is it the heuristics I'm coding in, or is aesthetics
> really random?
> >> >>
> >> >> Time to start adding rules."
> >> >>
> >> >> I think it has to do with the range of data. Random is going
> >> >> to use the whole range of data equally whereas something like
> >> >> weather is going to be concentrated in predictable area's of
> >> >> the full range.
> >> >> Personally, I think it's really interesting to see what
> >> >> happens with different types of data. If you experiment with
> >> >> different data sources, I think you'll find that they each
> >> >> have their own significant character which could in turn be
> >> >> interesting to mix together.
> >> >>
> >> >> Pall
> >> >>
> >> >> On 10.1.2006, at 18:56, Rob Myers wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > I have been working on my program draw-something.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > There's a Flash version (made with MTASC):
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://draw-something.robmyers.org/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > And the Lisp version now makes multiple figures and
> >> >> coloured figures:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/11/purely-random-colour/
> >> >> >
> http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/08/draw-something-drawing/
> >> >> >
> >>
> http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/08/a-change-of-algorithm-for-
> >> >> > draw-something/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Source for all versions available from sourceforge CVS
> >> >> along with some
> >> >> > recent release bundles:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http:://rob-art.sourceforge.net/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > - Rob.
> >> >> > +
> >> >> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >> >> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >> >> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
> >> >> > subscribe.rhiz
> >> >> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> >> > +
> >> >> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >> >> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/
> >> >> > 29.php
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Pall Thayer
> >> >> p_thay@alcor.concordia.ca
> >> >> http://www.this.is/pallit
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> +
> >> >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >> >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> >> +
> >> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in
> >> >> the Membership Agreement available online at
> >> >> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > +
> >> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> > +
> >> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >> > Membership Agreement available online at
> >> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

DISCUSSION

Re: draw-something


Apologies, MANIK from hell, i was out all day and perhaps it's because i'm
too tired but much as i feel obliged to anwer when addressed, i find it near
impossible to respond to your remarks in a meaningful way now: you start
from mistaking my sigh of incompetence to deal with a concept for a
definition of a word, and continue in a random fashion of pre-emptive
strikes to nail my male but against an imagenary wall, it seems. My next
mail in this thread kinda contradicts everything here, no? Anyway, i'm not
from the Netherlands, so there's no need to drag those fine people into this
and if you'd care to take a look at what i try to do, you might agree i'm
not after any kind of total control.
How is hell these days anyway? i kinda miss the heat, sometimes.
dv

_____

Van: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org] Namens manik
Verzonden: donderdag 12 januari 2006 3:41
Aan: list@rhizome.org
Onderwerp: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: draw-something

Hi Dirk,
This is MANIK from hell.
Let's get to work:for you randomness mean same as a concept("For me
randomness, the concept, ...)
This is interesting idea and I dare to see rot of it could be in Dutchman's
fight for fertility land,fight against nature(fait against randomness of
see, the concept of other entity,God maybe.)American Pioneer have some of
that madness but they were cruel murder if is necessary,and of curse God was
good/necessary for pardon of sins)."So help me God!",they said and kill some
Iraqi child,or Indian,it doesn't matter.
Man have to established full control,he's uber alles,he rule over nature-in
this moment this represent retro-modernistic concept with element of
fascism(genetic control and modular stile of space/mind strategic
organization),fancy,inn,mostly in design,and fashion,in
"modular"architecture etc...Significant historical example were Mondrian's
neoplasticism,and Le Corbusier buildings.But even in Mondrians work was
element of randomness,intentionally provoke suspense(Bugi-Vugi serial from
NYC,40-this,...to much randomness,to many blots).
I think that you wish people-machine who work perfect until they stop.One's
for ever,The End!(?)Plastic doll who you could bore when became nasty?
My humble experience with mechanism who investigate random/rule-tarot,and
similar discipline are para-scientist,worthless and extremely personal as an
experience and they're in strange co-relation with J.Koons
statement(paraphrase):"We have to be objective and reduce influence of
subconsiousnes."Which mean that we can see our self's in every sense of this
word(future,destiny,...)but what's the purpose?If you are afraid of concept
act like they doesn't existed.If you hate randomness there's no Superman
anymore(he broke his neck and die)to save us.It looks to me that we must
live with legs spread between random and predictable.See explanation of
card"Chariot",and legend about Medusa,Orpheus&Eurydice,emotions?:)
Cheers
MANIK

For me randomness, the concept, is a nightmare, it's quicksand, it is the
one thing i can think of that's worse then (pick any random worst horror).
The day Superman solves random we'll all go to heaven (yes, even you manik).

Try it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random
They (we) can't even get the wikipedia article straightened out.

dv

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]
> Namens Pall Thayer
> Verzonden: woensdag 11 januari 2006 15:55
> Aan: Rob Myers
> CC: Rhizome Raw list
> Onderwerp: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: draw-something
>
> Hi Rob,
> I was looking at this and find it interesting. Thanks for
> sharing the code with us. There are a couple of questions
> that come to mind. I'd like to know if you have any plans of
> making the lines more "pencil"- like by creating a more
> expressive line. I feel this is an issue that has been
> largely overlooked by people working with automated drawing
> processes. They tend to look really flat and dead because of it.
> AARON, for instance, suffers from a severe case of flatness
> that could be easily cured by some simple, maybe even random,
> variation in line thickness and length. There's an
> interesting project called Freestyle that's working on this
> (among other things) at http://
> freestyle.sourceforge.net/index.php (source available).
>
> Also, I noticed this on your blog:
> "The shapes are random. The colours are random. At worst I'm
> showing one in every three of these images.
>
> Randomness gives good results far more often than it should.
> Is it the heuristics I'm coding in, or is aesthetics really random?
>
> Time to start adding rules."
>
> I think it has to do with the range of data. Random is going
> to use the whole range of data equally whereas something like
> weather is going to be concentrated in predictable area's of
> the full range.
> Personally, I think it's really interesting to see what
> happens with different types of data. If you experiment with
> different data sources, I think you'll find that they each
> have their own significant character which could in turn be
> interesting to mix together.
>
> Pall
>
> On 10.1.2006, at 18:56, Rob Myers wrote:
>
> > I have been working on my program draw-something.
> >
> > There's a Flash version (made with MTASC):
> >
> > http://draw-something.robmyers.org/
> >
> > And the Lisp version now makes multiple figures and
> coloured figures:
> >
> > http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/11/purely-random-colour/
> > http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/08/draw-something-drawing/
> > http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/08/a-change-of-algorithm-for-
> > draw-something/
> >
> > Source for all versions available from sourceforge CVS
> along with some
> > recent release bundles:
> >
> > http:://rob-art.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > - Rob.
> > +
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
> > subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
> > 29.php
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Pall Thayer
> p_thay@alcor.concordia.ca
> http://www.this.is/pallit
>
>
>
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in
> the Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

+
-> post: list@rhizome.org
-> questions: info@rhizome.org
-> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
-> give: http://rhizome.org/support
+
Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php

DISCUSSION

Re: draw-something


Hi there Zev:
once again, you're talking zen. These are pleasant thoughts though.
So yes & perhaps if you love it you get to know it in the end, as a reward
for letting it happen.
Miracles, or tales thereoff, always include some form of randomness, too.

But the point is (i think, do correct me if i'm wrong, cause i really don't
know any of this for sure): when you're programming, mostly either you want
to know exactly what will happen or you want to be able to count on it that
what will happen in the program is not determined by your previous code. So
you want it to be a random sequence. But that's where the problems start.
First you need to deal with pseudo-random, i. e. seemingly random things
that only act truly random for a given amount of cycles before it starts
reiterating. When that happens the sequence can only be 'just' another
predetermined, programmed cycle.

Pseudo-random is not a major problem unless you need to program very
important encryption software. If you're involved in such a thing, you can
make your fortune by coming up with the 'cheepest' algorhythm giving the
highest degree of randomness. Cheep in processing time to run the darn
thing, that is.

Pseudo-random is also a problem, i think, for those of us who want to make
works of art that include randomness in its concept. In some cases
pseudo-random won't do conceptually, because it would be cheating on the
idea you're trying to present. In some of those hard cases, you might solve
the problem by reverting to external inputs like radio static of the
degeneration rate of radio-activity. Alan Sondheim uses a 100 year old
instrument called a Crookes spinthariscope for it. They sell these beautiful
instruments as plastic leaded toys these days:
http://www.unitednuclear.com/spinthariscope.htm
But in a few scenario's using such equipment, or a random generating service
like http://www.random.org/ might not be possible.

And when you have finally succesfully included pure randomness in your
artwork, or when you're satisfied with the amount of imperfection, you still
need to make sense of it (ok:some artists don't, but because of the random
thing they'll never know for sure just how meaningless it is). You don't
need to solve the riddle of the universe at that point, but you want to have
a clear idea of what you're doing, how the random part strikes the balance
with the programmed part including the personal, stylish part every
programmer puts in her programming and their personal assesment of what is
beautiful, valuable, aesthetically pleasing or any perversions thereoff. So
if you ask yourself what is your take on random, you are perhaps required to
ask yourself a question that goes to the core of what you're trying to
accomplish. It's about how much control you want to have over what you are
doing, the inner/outer balance of it, the IOwhy of an artist.

There are times when you don't want to be face to face with these questions.
I can write poetry or nag on art like this for ages without getting
emotionally affected when i don't want that. Merely calling the Math.random
class in my actionScript sometimes gives me the creeps, involuntarily.

I can't predict it, but when that happens, it take it to be a sign.

greetings,
dv

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Zev Robinson [mailto:zr@zrdesign.co.uk]
> Verzonden: woensdag 11 januari 2006 22:30
> Aan: Dirk Vekemans; 'Pall Thayer'; 'Rob Myers'
> CC: 'Rhizome Raw list'
> Onderwerp: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: draw-something
>
> Dirk,
>
> I love randomness. Much of my art work is based on
> randomness. Much of my life has been affected by seemingly
> random events and coincidences. I don't know where I'd be
> without randomness. I don't want it solved or defined.
> Maybe randomness is an illusion, and it's all preordained,
> but I don't care, I still love randomness.
>
> Best,
>
> Zev
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dirk Vekemans" <dv@vilt.net>
> To: "'Pall Thayer'" <p_thay@alcor.concordia.ca>; "'Rob Myers'"
> <rob@robmyers.org>
> Cc: "'Rhizome Raw list'" <list@rhizome.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:22 PM
> Subject: RE: RHIZOME_RAW: draw-something
>
>
> > For me randomness, the concept, is a nightmare, it's
> quicksand, it is the
> > one thing i can think of that's worse then (pick any random worst
> > horror).
> > The day Superman solves random we'll all go to heaven (yes,
> even you
> > manik).
> >
> > Try it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random
> > They (we) can't even get the wikipedia article straightened out.
> >
> > dv
> >
> >
> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> >> Van: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]
> >> Namens Pall Thayer
> >> Verzonden: woensdag 11 januari 2006 15:55
> >> Aan: Rob Myers
> >> CC: Rhizome Raw list
> >> Onderwerp: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: draw-something
> >>
> >> Hi Rob,
> >> I was looking at this and find it interesting. Thanks for
> >> sharing the code with us. There are a couple of questions
> >> that come to mind. I'd like to know if you have any plans of
> >> making the lines more "pencil"- like by creating a more
> >> expressive line. I feel this is an issue that has been
> >> largely overlooked by people working with automated drawing
> >> processes. They tend to look really flat and dead because of it.
> >> AARON, for instance, suffers from a severe case of flatness
> >> that could be easily cured by some simple, maybe even random,
> >> variation in line thickness and length. There's an
> >> interesting project called Freestyle that's working on this
> >> (among other things) at http://
> >> freestyle.sourceforge.net/index.php (source available).
> >>
> >> Also, I noticed this on your blog:
> >> "The shapes are random. The colours are random. At worst I'm
> >> showing one in every three of these images.
> >>
> >> Randomness gives good results far more often than it should.
> >> Is it the heuristics I'm coding in, or is aesthetics really random?
> >>
> >> Time to start adding rules."
> >>
> >> I think it has to do with the range of data. Random is going
> >> to use the whole range of data equally whereas something like
> >> weather is going to be concentrated in predictable area's of
> >> the full range.
> >> Personally, I think it's really interesting to see what
> >> happens with different types of data. If you experiment with
> >> different data sources, I think you'll find that they each
> >> have their own significant character which could in turn be
> >> interesting to mix together.
> >>
> >> Pall
> >>
> >> On 10.1.2006, at 18:56, Rob Myers wrote:
> >>
> >> > I have been working on my program draw-something.
> >> >
> >> > There's a Flash version (made with MTASC):
> >> >
> >> > http://draw-something.robmyers.org/
> >> >
> >> > And the Lisp version now makes multiple figures and
> >> coloured figures:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/11/purely-random-colour/
> >> > http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/08/draw-something-drawing/
> >> >
> http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/08/a-change-of-algorithm-for-
> >> > draw-something/
> >> >
> >> > Source for all versions available from sourceforge CVS
> >> along with some
> >> > recent release bundles:
> >> >
> >> > http:://rob-art.sourceforge.net/
> >> >
> >> > - Rob.
> >> > +
> >> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
> >> > subscribe.rhiz
> >> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> > +
> >> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> >> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
> >> > 29.php
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Pall Thayer
> >> p_thay@alcor.concordia.ca
> >> http://www.this.is/pallit
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> +
> >> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> >> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> >> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> >> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> >> +
> >> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in
> >> the Membership Agreement available online at
> >> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >>
> >
> >
> > +
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
>
>

DISCUSSION

Re: draw-something


For me randomness, the concept, is a nightmare, it's quicksand, it is the
one thing i can think of that's worse then (pick any random worst horror).
The day Superman solves random we'll all go to heaven (yes, even you manik).

Try it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random
They (we) can't even get the wikipedia article straightened out.

dv

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-list@rhizome.org [mailto:owner-list@rhizome.org]
> Namens Pall Thayer
> Verzonden: woensdag 11 januari 2006 15:55
> Aan: Rob Myers
> CC: Rhizome Raw list
> Onderwerp: Re: RHIZOME_RAW: draw-something
>
> Hi Rob,
> I was looking at this and find it interesting. Thanks for
> sharing the code with us. There are a couple of questions
> that come to mind. I'd like to know if you have any plans of
> making the lines more "pencil"- like by creating a more
> expressive line. I feel this is an issue that has been
> largely overlooked by people working with automated drawing
> processes. They tend to look really flat and dead because of it.
> AARON, for instance, suffers from a severe case of flatness
> that could be easily cured by some simple, maybe even random,
> variation in line thickness and length. There's an
> interesting project called Freestyle that's working on this
> (among other things) at http://
> freestyle.sourceforge.net/index.php (source available).
>
> Also, I noticed this on your blog:
> "The shapes are random. The colours are random. At worst I'm
> showing one in every three of these images.
>
> Randomness gives good results far more often than it should.
> Is it the heuristics I'm coding in, or is aesthetics really random?
>
> Time to start adding rules."
>
> I think it has to do with the range of data. Random is going
> to use the whole range of data equally whereas something like
> weather is going to be concentrated in predictable area's of
> the full range.
> Personally, I think it's really interesting to see what
> happens with different types of data. If you experiment with
> different data sources, I think you'll find that they each
> have their own significant character which could in turn be
> interesting to mix together.
>
> Pall
>
> On 10.1.2006, at 18:56, Rob Myers wrote:
>
> > I have been working on my program draw-something.
> >
> > There's a Flash version (made with MTASC):
> >
> > http://draw-something.robmyers.org/
> >
> > And the Lisp version now makes multiple figures and
> coloured figures:
> >
> > http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/11/purely-random-colour/
> > http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/08/draw-something-drawing/
> > http://www.robmyers.org/weblog/2006/01/08/a-change-of-algorithm-for-
> > draw-something/
> >
> > Source for all versions available from sourceforge CVS
> along with some
> > recent release bundles:
> >
> > http:://rob-art.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > - Rob.
> > +
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/
> > subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/
> > 29.php
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Pall Thayer
> p_thay@alcor.concordia.ca
> http://www.this.is/pallit
>
>
>
>
>
> +
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in
> the Membership Agreement available online at
> http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

DISCUSSION

Are you Adolphe Sax?


Do you sell perfumes?
Do you alarm others needlessly?
Do you avow your great intelligence?
Do you take a solemn oath?

Are you given to gossiping?
Are you a vulgariser, treater, inducer or conferee?
Do you make promises?
Do you propagate, ramble, roar, scream, screech, shout or yell?
Do you commiserate with wafflers?
Or warn the answerer?

So you comfort the swearer, do you?

Do you make belts?
Do you brew beer, repair shoes or generate complaints?

Are you a shirtmaker, a glassmaker or a needleworker?
Do you make watches, tools, violins or wigs?
Are you Adolphe Sax?

http://www.vilt.net/nkdee/USSR.jsp
<BLOCKED::http://www.vilt.net/nkdee/USSR.jsp>

greetings,
dv @ Neue Kathedrale des erotischen Elends
http://www.vilt.net/nkdee <BLOCKED::http://www.vilt.net/nkdee>