Brett Stalbaum
Since the beginning
Works in La Jolla, California United States of America

PORTFOLIO (1)
BIO
Brett Stalbaum, Lecturer, LSOE
Coordinator, Interdisciplinary Computing and the Arts Major (ICAM)

UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, SAN DIEGO
Department of Visual Arts
9500 GILMAN DR. # 0084
La Jolla CA 92093-0084

C5 research theorist (www.c5corp.com) 1997-2007
Graduate (MFA) of the CADRE Digital Media Laboratory at San Jose State
University.
Professional affiliations:
Electronic Disturbance Theater
C5
paintersflat.net

http://www.paintersflat.net/

Latest: The Silver Island Bunker Trail, possibly the first time humans have walked like a game bot. The trail is open to the public for outdoor recreation and enjoyment.
http://silverisland.paintersflat.net
Discussions (117) Opportunities (2) Events (7) Jobs (3)
DISCUSSION

THING.NET EVICTED FROM INTERNET (fwd)


If this press release from rtmark is as stated (I have no reason to think
it is not), then clearly the DMCA is being implemented for political ends
in a pretty daring way. Taking down an entire ISP (and all unrelated
accounts) for the actions of just one of its clients is probably a prima
facie affront to the first amendment all by itself. But when taken in the
context of the kinds of activist work supported by thing, well, lets just
say we know who the targets are. It could hardly be more blatant. There
are a lot of ISPs out there, no doubt, who have had DMCA complaints
against individual hosting clients. I wonder how many have been uncoupled
from the backbone?

I'd like to add a few other examples to rtmark's list to make for overkill
on the previous point.

Ricardo Dominguez
http://www.thing.net/~rdom/

Coco Fusco
http://www.thing.net/~cocofusco/

Not to mention any number of anti-war projects hosted on thing. Good
timing, no?

But the action here of cutting the root to kill the offending leaves also
takes with it any number of non-activist art projects. Thing hosts a 1998
work of my own that is in no way in an activist mode.
(http://www.thing.net/~beestal). To get an overall sense, check out
bbs.thing.net and check out the variety of art sites they host. Maybe wish
them a good-bye or some good luck.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 03:04:03 -0500
From: RTMark Press <ann45@rtmark.com>
Subject: THING.NET EVICTED FROM INTERNET

December 23, 2002
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Thing.net assistance page: https://secure.thing.net/backbone/
Contact: mailto:thing-group@rtmark.com

ACTIVIST NETWORK IN NY EVICTED FROM INTERNET BY DOW, VERIO

Bowing to pressure from the Dow Chemical Corporation, the internet
company Verio has booted the activist-oriented Thing.net from the Web.

Internet service provider Thing.net has been the primary service
provider for activist and artist organizations in the New York area
for 10 years.

On December 3, activists used a server housed by Thing.net to post a
parody Dow press release on the eighteenth anniversary of the disaster
in which 20,000 people died as a result of an accident at a Union
Carbide plant in Bhopal, India. (Union Carbide is now owned by Dow.)
The deadpan statement, which many people took as real, explained that
Dow could not accept responsibility for the disaster due to its
primary allegiance to its shareholders and to its bottom line.

Dow was not amused, and sent a Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)
complaint to Verio, which immediately cut Thing.net off the internet
for fifteen hours. A few days later, Verio announced that Thing.net
had 60 days to move to another provider before being shut down
permanently, unilaterally terminating Thing.net's 7-year-old contract.

Affected organizations include PS1/MOMA, Artforum, Nettime, Tenant.net
(which assists renters facing eviction), and hundreds more.

"Verio's actions are nothing short of outrageous," said Wolfgang
Staehle, Thing.net Executive Director. "They could have resolved the
matter with the Dow parodists directly; instead they chose to shut
down our entire network. This self-appointed enforcement of the DMCA
could have a serious chilling effect on free speech, and has already
damaged our business."

RTMark, which publicizes corporate abuses of democracy, is housed on
Thing.net. Please visit https://secure.thing.net/backbone/ to help
Thing.net survive Dow's and Verio's actions, and to develop a plan to
avoid such problems in the future.

# 30 #

DISCUSSION

Re: THING.NET EVICTED FROM INTERNET (fwd)


NY times, Matthew Mirapaul, today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/23/arts/design/23ARTS.html?pagewanted=1&eiP62&enu343cc94de419c0&ex41310800

On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, ricardo dominguez wrote:

> Hola all,
>
> Thanks for the thoughts mr Brett.
>
> It is all too true.
>
> At this moment in time any support would
> be incredible - from legal to a donation.
>
> https://secure.thing.net/backbone/
>
> Happy Holidaze to All.
>
> ricardo
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brett Stalbaum" <beestal@cadre.sjsu.edu>
> To: <list@rhizome.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 5:47 AM
> Subject: RHIZOME_RAW: THING.NET EVICTED FROM INTERNET (fwd)
>
>
> > If this press release from rtmark is as stated (I have no reason to think
> > it is not), then clearly the DMCA is being implemented for political ends
> > in a pretty daring way. Taking down an entire ISP (and all unrelated
> > accounts) for the actions of just one of its clients is probably a prima
> > facie affront to the first amendment all by itself. But when taken in the
> > context of the kinds of activist work supported by thing, well, lets just
> > say we know who the targets are. It could hardly be more blatant. There
> > are a lot of ISPs out there, no doubt, who have had DMCA complaints
> > against individual hosting clients. I wonder how many have been uncoupled
> > from the backbone?
> >
> > I'd like to add a few other examples to rtmark's list to make for overkill
> > on the previous point.
> >
> > Ricardo Dominguez
> > http://www.thing.net/~rdom/
> >
> > Coco Fusco
> > http://www.thing.net/~cocofusco/
> >
> > Not to mention any number of anti-war projects hosted on thing. Good
> > timing, no?
> >
> > But the action here of cutting the root to kill the offending leaves also
> > takes with it any number of non-activist art projects. Thing hosts a 1998
> > work of my own that is in no way in an activist mode.
> > (http://www.thing.net/~beestal). To get an overall sense, check out
> > bbs.thing.net and check out the variety of art sites they host. Maybe wish
> > them a good-bye or some good luck.
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 03:04:03 -0500
> > From: RTMark Press <ann45@rtmark.com>
> > Subject: THING.NET EVICTED FROM INTERNET
> >
> > December 23, 2002
> > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> >
> > Thing.net assistance page: https://secure.thing.net/backbone/
> > Contact: mailto:thing-group@rtmark.com
> >
> > ACTIVIST NETWORK IN NY EVICTED FROM INTERNET BY DOW, VERIO
> >
> > Bowing to pressure from the Dow Chemical Corporation, the internet
> > company Verio has booted the activist-oriented Thing.net from the Web.
> >
> > Internet service provider Thing.net has been the primary service
> > provider for activist and artist organizations in the New York area
> > for 10 years.
> >
> > On December 3, activists used a server housed by Thing.net to post a
> > parody Dow press release on the eighteenth anniversary of the disaster
> > in which 20,000 people died as a result of an accident at a Union
> > Carbide plant in Bhopal, India. (Union Carbide is now owned by Dow.)
> > The deadpan statement, which many people took as real, explained that
> > Dow could not accept responsibility for the disaster due to its
> > primary allegiance to its shareholders and to its bottom line.
> >
> > Dow was not amused, and sent a Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)
> > complaint to Verio, which immediately cut Thing.net off the internet
> > for fifteen hours. A few days later, Verio announced that Thing.net
> > had 60 days to move to another provider before being shut down
> > permanently, unilaterally terminating Thing.net's 7-year-old contract.
> >
> > Affected organizations include PS1/MOMA, Artforum, Nettime, Tenant.net
> > (which assists renters facing eviction), and hundreds more.
> >
> > "Verio's actions are nothing short of outrageous," said Wolfgang
> > Staehle, Thing.net Executive Director. "They could have resolved the
> > matter with the Dow parodists directly; instead they chose to shut
> > down our entire network. This self-appointed enforcement of the DMCA
> > could have a serious chilling effect on free speech, and has already
> > damaged our business."
> >
> >
> > RTMark, which publicizes corporate abuses of democracy, is housed on
> > Thing.net. Please visit https://secure.thing.net/backbone/ to help
> > Thing.net survive Dow's and Verio's actions, and to develop a plan to
> > avoid such problems in the future.
> >
> > # 30 #
> >
> > + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> > -> post: list@rhizome.org
> > -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> > -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> > -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> > +
> > Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> > Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
> >
> >
>
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>

DISCUSSION

Database Logic(s) and Landscape Art [2/5]


Database Logic(s) and Landscape Art
Brett Stalbaum, C5 corporation

Surveyor: Precession of models and landscape [2/5]

The participation of the landscape in human culture is increasingly
understood through Global Information Systems. For example, the emerging
discipline of archeological geophysics uses GIS data to explore the
influence of geology on human political and economic history. [7] But the
operational inversion of this statement is also true: political and
economic history inflects (and often inflicts) itself on the landscape.
For example geologists and civil engineers enlist geo-data to help
physically reorganize the landscape; construction, mining, oil drilling,
landfill, agriculture, railroads, urban planning, waterworks, dams and
transportation are all endeavors that now prehend the landscape through
the use of geo-data. The landscape's own data is a player in the
systemization of our decision making. [8] Global information systems,
including the C5 Landscape Database [9] and related tools, demonstrate
precession of the model through processing data via semantically stable
data models, over which processing yields information that allows the
revelation of knowledge about the landscape which predicts our relation
toward it.

[image: Map of Mt. Diablo, California, UTM imager module, C5 Landscape
database (2002)]
(http://www.c5corp.com/raw_images/diablo.gif)

The practical outcomes of this knowledge indicate that the landscape
prehends to some degree its own modification by humanity. This concept
seems counter-intuitive, but an example makes it straightforward. Dams,
for example will be constructed in topographies and geologies that allow
them to function as dams. [10] Data models lie in some position between a
two way conversation between the cultural and the topographical that lead
to actual modifications of the landscape. In autopoietic terms, the
exploration of relations between topography and culture through
informational interchange is beginning to reveal examples of structural
coupling-like [11] behavior between them. To grasp this, it is important
to understand that data has simultaneously become a catalyzing factor in
the conversation, not merely an analytical tool for exploitation. This
feedback loop alters the character of the human relationship to landscape
from that of relatively unplanned domination to a somewhat more sensitive
symbiosis. [12] Data and control systems provide a channel through which
eco-systems are able to express an influence in favor of their own
protection. [13] In addition, the landscape occasionally demands (or
acquiesces to) a new bridge, water diversion, nuclear waste site or
freeway interchange. Thus one of the problems that artists (and possibly
scientists) working with landscape as data must deal with is the
embeddedness of the precession of models in-between the political and the
immanence of data as it is processed into information. This political
dimension to the inquiry deals with mapping as a cultural production
embedded within a set of scientific descriptors which drive our cultural
relationship with the land. How can we begin to describe the complexities
that emerge from this relationship?

[image: Evidence of the cultural in landscape data, Memphis, TN.]
(http://www.c5corp.com/raw_images/MEMP1.gif)

Data, which is non-controversially real in an ontological sense, is now a
formative influence on the actualization of the landscape through
virtualization in information technology systems. The notion of virtual in
this description is drawn from Deleuze's schema for describing
multiplicities, as discussed by Delanda. [14] It does not refer to the
interfacial notion of 'virtual reality', but rather to the actualization
of reality through velocity vector fields (or tendencies to behave) that
manifest themselves as actual (measurable) trajectories of physical
systems as expressed in relational constraints between its vectors. The
trajectories resulting from relative constraints tend to settle into
consistent patterns of interaction with one another. Observations of
velocity vectors and trajectories in actual systems allow phase portraits
describing such systems to be embedded in simulated manifolds consisting
of descriptors of the vectors and their trajectories. The phase portrait
simply describes the interactions inherent in the actual system. Applied
science utilizes this schema to model physical systems; analyzing behavior
through repeated observations of actual physical systems, and then using
computer models developed through the informatization of such observations
into manifolds to animate vector descriptors into phase portraits. Through
simulated manipulation of descriptors describing velocity vectors,
scientists are able to model natural systems and predict complex behavior.
The United States, for example, has ceased to physically test nuclear
weapons, because these can be tested virtually with super-computer
simulations.

For Delanda and before him Deleuze, virtuality is not merely a
contemporary artifact of computation, but rather identifies the proximity
of concrete attractors, realities which attract the actualization of
systems, and which for Delanda replaces essences in philosophy. It is
specifically because the virtual is real (or more real than real) that it
can be explored computationally, where for example Plato's ideal forms
simply can not be computed. In other words, virtuality implies a
relationship to the actualization of systems in concrete terms, not
transcendental terms. The concreteness of attractors are demonstrated in
"various long term tendencies of a system... which are recurrent
topological features, which means that different sets of equations,
representing quite different physical systems, may possess a similar
distribution of attractors and hence, similar long-term behavior." [15] In
more common Deleuzeian terms, attractors are abstract machines: general
abstract processes (such as stratification, meshworks, blind replicators)
that play an embedded role in the instantiation of a concrete actual.
Simulations really help us study actual systems, including geology,
watershed, landcover, and topography. Thus the virtual is defined in terms
of attractors or actuators of the real, not the imaginary virtual reality
worlds that have been the subject of so many art projects.

Data is thus not unreal; it is a virtual reality that participates in
instantiation. The mechanisms of data that participate in actualization
can be discovered through modes of experimental exploration in virtual
space. We might be tempted to infer that it is the information, knowledge,
(and related opportunity) that can be mined from modeled data (in relation
to the virtual), which play the catalytic role in the generation of the
real landscape where humanity is involved, and to a large degree, this has
been the case historically. In this view, the techniques of virtual
science allow us to search for predictive scientific truths that can be
rationally manipulated. But of course, there are perspectives that
potentially make this inference problematic. We could, for example, pose a
Marxist-semiotic analysis; positing that there exists parasitic cultural
assumptions that cleave to (or are expressed in) data models (and thus the
data collected), which are otherwise sincerely generated for scientific
purposes. In other words, do notions of progress, development, land use,
extraction of natural resources and other cultural or economic desires
dictate the manifold, perhaps through omission of descriptors, based on
the 'purpose' that the data is intentionally collected for? This could
explain the subtle and perhaps even unintentional manipulation of science
to either deny or confirm humanity's influence on global warming, to site
just one well known example.

Alternatively, data's role in the instantiation of the actual may be a
matter of virtual informatic interrelations (or external relations between
data sets), forming their own consensual domains [16] that heretofore have
not yet been observed as such, but which potentially inflect the operation
of actual systems via informational transfer between neighboring systems
of interrelations. In other words, data interrelations may themselves be
vectors that influence the trajectory of actual systems. This theory
depends on the idea that data is not only real, but actual, and capable of
actualization. Although it is likely that all of these issues are all
interoperable to some degree, Joel Slayton hints at C5's orientation by
posing the following: "These are factors of economic and political
assessment which infer that database logic necessarily has to surpass...
intentionalities. Are artists just going to do economic, rainfall and
surveillance models, or does the question shift to other subject-less
concerns of mere informatic relations? If so, what is the semiotic
context?" [17] Subject-less (or non-semantic) informatic relations must
express some form of semiotic-like behavior if actual (because actual
systems can ultimately be signified, such as imaginary numbers), but would
be difficult to penetrate from either the examination of their semiosis,
(how do we observe a system when we don't know what questions to ask), and
from the perspective of a language to express that which is after all
non-semantic. "Clarity endlessly plunges into obscurity" [18] under such
analytical circumstances. This is obviously a highly speculative
territory, but if tactics to reveal such relations of data can be
developed, and if they can be generalized, then we have a new
understanding of database [19] that may account for the two way
conversation between the cultural and the topographical, (or the genetic,
the chemical, the quantum, etc.) C5 enters this terrain in explorative
fashion though the semiotic context of our discipline (as artists), with
landscape and its data as the object of study.

[next installment: Mountainous: Semiotics, and the precession of semantic
models]

[7] For a good example, see http://fisher.lib.virginia.edu/projects/salem/
The GIS of "Salem Village in 1692" is part of an electronic Research
Archive of primary source materials related to the Salem witch trials of
1692.
[8] This is one aspect of C5's research into geo-data and technology in
the landscape: allowing or encouraging alternative examples of potentially
healthy and interesting 'revelation' on the part of the landscape to be
fulfilled.
[9] http://spike.sjsu.edu/~gis (Alpha)
[10] This is even known to happen "naturally":
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nyos/dam/hazard.htm
[11] Maturana, Humberto R., and Varela, Francisco J., The Tree of
Knowledge - The Biological Roots of Human Understanding, 1987 Shambhala
Publications, Boston Massachusetts. Pg 75. "[A] history of recurrent
interactions leading to the structural congruence between two (or more)
systems."
[12] For example, data plays a significant role in decision making in the
nascent movement to remove unneeded dams in the United States.
[13] A good example can be found in accomplishments of the Mono Lake
Committee founded by scientist David Gains in 1978, who used scientific
data as the basis of the Committee's work to save the lake. It was the
data that convinced the justice system that the lake needed to be better
managed.
[14] Delanda, Manuel Intensive Science & Virtual Philosophy, Continuum,
370 Lexington Ave, NY NY 2002, pg 36
[15] ibid 15
[16] Wittig, Geri, Expansive Order: Situated and Distributed Knowledge
Production in Network Space,
http://www.c5corp.com/research/situated_distributed.shtml
[17] Quoted from a personal conversation, with permission.
[18] Slayton, Joel and Wittig, Geri Ontology of Organization as System,
Switch - the new media journal of the CADRE digital media laboratory, Fall
1999, Vol 5 Num 3, http://switch.sjsu.edu/web/v5n3/F-1.html
[19] Stalbaum. Brett, Toward Autopoietic Database, a research paper for
C5. (2001) http://www.c5corp.com/research/autopoieticdatabase.shtml

DISCUSSION

Database Logic(s) and Landscape Art [1/5]


Database Logic(s) and Landscape Art
Brett Stalbaum, C5 corporation

Introduction: the logics of database logic [1/5]

The important question for contemporary information artists working with
global information systems is, "How do we view the landscape according to
database logic?" But before this surprisingly complicated problem can be
parsed, there is a semantic issue regarding the meaning of "database
logic" that must be clarified before we can embark on our search for an
answer. "Database logic" is overloaded. One signature of the aesthetics of
database is multi-layered, relating to various data modeling techniques
and APIs for accessing and processing data, whereas another signature of
"database logic" lies in relation to the visual, audible and interactive
presentation of a work: interfacial aesthetics. Thus there are more
"database logics" than those that are directly manifest in the visual,
interactive and user interface related aspects of the information arts.
Once past the user interface, analysis is able to expand to the formal
organization of data, as well as the computational, semiotic, and cultural
behavior that is expressed in the structural coupling of data to the
environment in which it functions. The logistics required in dealing with
the landscape through database logic necessarily involves the
implementation of database logic in addition to the representation of
database logic, and this is a pivotal issue that touches many of the other
issues facing artists dealing with landscape as data.

It is in the implementation of relational, object-oriented,
object-relational, multidimensional and other database models where
explorations of landscape data and its world might be expressed, allowed
to self-express, or express in collaboration with human subjects; the user
interface is secondary representation to the structure and organization of
data. Indeed, it is not even clear that the technical organization of data
is necessarily a strong predicate of user interface. This is demonstrated
in the cultural realm of human-machinic interaction by the dogged
reemergence of the command line interface (mostly thanks to Linux); even
as many began to assume that the CLI was dead. Even the computer operating
system formerly known best for its GUI Puritanism, the MacOS, is now
actually a Unix OS called MacOSX, (it is really BSD [1] under the GUI
covers), that for the first time makes a shell interface available to Mac
users. The fact that database is often accessed, designed, and managed
using both GUIs and CLIs indicates that the underlying data and various
API layers are not necessarily bound to any particular aesthetic
experience of database at the interface. [2] This is not to say that there
is no coupling between these layers [3], nor is it to say that there is no
'database aesthetic' that is expressed as a visible or interfacial part of
our culture. Rather than drive the analysis of database aesthetics away
from the interface, the intention is to extend aesthetics down into at
least the technical implementation of data, allowing the inclusion of
data, its organization and possibly its inter-textual or extra-textual
behaviors regardless of external intentionalities and semantics.

Thus for artists working with landscape data, there are aesthetic
correlates to the original question involving the strategic and tactical
approaches that are necessary for dealing with the inherent uncertainty of
mined/revealed relations amidst (or between) extremely large sets of
geo-data organized logically and discretely, particularly in consideration
of data with a formal basis in relational or multidimensional algebra. It
is not clear that landscape as database art is best expressed through
either the command line interface or graphical user interface in the first
instance, (although I would never deny that it could be expressed in such
a way). It is possible, and perhaps even likely, that computer artists
working with landscape and database might avoid any computer mediated
interface to their production altogether. There are other questions which
I will treat as well, such as how the nature and conceptions of place are
altered by database, and how the nature of being in place (the role of the
narrative in place), is similarly altered.

Answering these problems of database and landscape requires a great deal
of work, most of which is honestly speculative at this time, and which can
not be secured in this essay. But the reason to make art (and to write) is
to understand, rather than because one already understands, (exploration
not explication), so I ask the reader to pardon the dust as I construct a
bridge between the precession of models, the semiotic and cultural context
of database, and the formal technical logics of data that impinge upon the
practice of database as landscape art. If I mistakenly include the
Buenaventura River [4] flowing to the Pacific in my early maps, only at
some later time to discover my initial anticipations evaporate in the
Humboldt Sink, so be it. The Humboldt Sink may be adequately interesting
for reasons other than transport to the Pacific.

It is important to this analysis to reference certain philosophical
notions that impinge upon and inform the cultural logic of late 20th and
early 21st century art. These will be indexed but not detailed except as
necessary to drive this analysis away from certain pitfalls. The first is
the tradition of semiology, particularly the theoretical thread that
emerged from narrative analysis dealing specifically with the aesthetic
consequences of syntagm and paradigm. Another is the precession of
simulacra, or matters of models of the real and their impact on, or
replacement of, the real. Finally, there is the theory of abstract
machines, or immanent models or attractors around which systems
spontaneously organize their material manifestation. The first is largely
influenced by Roland Barthes, the second derives primarily from
Baudrillard, the latter from Deleuze, and his best reader, Manuel
DeLanda. The pitfalls that I want to be very careful about are the clichs and
metaphors that spin out of the discourse of the postmodern, which have
been favored by artists and intellectuals in the 20th century. [5] Rather
than limit analysis to conceptual models of nomadic ridicule,
deconstruction of the text, copy-left cut and paste, or ironic criticism
of cultural institutions, I instead seek an analysis that views the
precession of models, abstract machines, and the technical logic of
database as aspects of the actual that should be explored by artists [6]
in the context of landscape.

[next installment: Surveyor: Precession of models and landscape]

[1] Berkeley System Distribution, a Unix OS developed in the 1970's by
Bill Joy and others. http://www.freebsd.org/
[2] The historical influence of the hierarchical database as file system
is noted, but the matter is of how it is visualized and implemented as an
interactive system. For example GUI's vs Unix CLI commands such as ls, cd,
and pwd, are very different aesthetically, even if both depend upon
single-parent nodes for containment.
[3] Refer to 2.
[4] Fremont, John C. 1845, Report Of The Exploring Expedition To The Rocky
Mountains In The Year 1842, And To Oregon And North California In The
Years 1843-44. By Brevet Captain J.C. Fremont, Of The Topographical
Engineers, Under The Orders Of Col. J.J. Abert, Chief Of The Topographical
Bureau. Printed By Order Of The Senate Of The United States. page 196
[5] This is itself a nested clich.
[6]For a related thesis, see Foster, Hal The Return of the Real, The MIT
Press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1996

DISCUSSION

Re: question loosely related to new media


Richard Misrach and Lewis Baltz

On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, Marisa S. Olson wrote:

> what photographers, or artists working with photography, do rhizomers
> find UNDER-rated? just curious... marisa
>
>
> _________________
> Marisa S. Olson
> Associate Director
> SF Camerawork
> 415. 863. 1001
> + ti esrever dna ti pilf nwod gniht ym tup
> -> post: list@rhizome.org
> -> questions: info@rhizome.org
> -> subscribe/unsubscribe: http://rhizome.org/preferences/subscribe.rhiz
> -> give: http://rhizome.org/support
> +
> Subscribers to Rhizome are subject to the terms set out in the
> Membership Agreement available online at http://rhizome.org/info/29.php
>